[iudogs]

Where do you stand on Separate Tourneys for Public and Private Schools?
For it or Against it??

Vote

This is IUDOGS signing off.

[wilco98]

Absolutely against it. Part of the fun, for me, was watching Coldwater take down Mooney twice for state titles and Alter in that 3OT thriller, none of which would be possible with seperate tournaments.

[NC Rattlesnake]

For it. Private schools have such a huge advantage because of recruiting. Private schools' dominance in the playoffs has gotten way out of hand.

[Gz1up 2 Down]

Originally Posted by NC Rattlesnake

For it. Private schools have such a huge advantage because of recruiting. Private schools' dominance in the playoffs has gotten way out of hand.

Private schools generally do a better job of keeping their kids in check, hence why they do so well in playoffs.

[run n shoot 08]

Against it. Success breeds success. Kids don't get recruited, they see a long line of tradition and If they have the money they will choose the private school. Also if they were to seperate, the private school divisions would not have many teams, making a private school state championship less valuable, than going against all the best teams In the state.

[USA70PP]

Even with seperate tournaments some of the schools crying loudest for the split still would not win a title.

[19AL63]

It is not all privates winning state titles. A small number have won a few more than their share, but how many privates are looking for their first championship just like lots of public schools. It is a championship and there can only be one winner each year.

[BradleyJaguars]

Originally Posted by NC Rattlesnake

For it. Private schools have such a huge advantage because of recruiting. Private schools' dominance in the playoffs has gotten way out of hand.

As a friend of mine correctly likes to point out, unequal outcome is not, repeat is not, evidence of unequal opportunity. What else supports your position?

[lonewolf12]

To be the best you have to beat the best.

[12penguins]

Trophies for everyone... have the winners meet for the Big tourney playoff championships.... after of course, declaring a state champion public and private in each division...so let's see..we have 7 public division, so we have to have 7 private divisions.. so 14 state champs, who then meet for the 7 divisional state state overall championships, with the 7 winners and best losing team as determined by a straw poll of the media, going into an 8 team bracket... for a playoff of champions champion...

[huskerdoc63]

I've been on the fence for this topic for a while now.

My thoughts:

1) Recruiting does happen. Yes tradition pulls kids in. However, I have been on a coaching staff where our athletes have been approached by private school coaches in various ways. Nuff said. Does this happen in public schools as well, more than likely yes. The programs I have been associated with have not.

2) I agree with the philosophy, to be the best is to beat the best. However, what does it say about your program if you lose to the "best" if the cards have been stacked against you? I see this happen in the lower divisions more often than not. You have a team that has a great class. They have had great success, then they meet up against a private school that is loaded and played a D1 schedule because of the talent they have amassed by whatever means. (Lets be real, a small school with multiple D1 athletes is rare, but it seems to happen to the private schools more often than the public schools although there are more public schools than private). That private school throttles that public school with a once in a life time class. How is that for high school football memories? That is the argument that I have for the issue that the schools should have seperate play-offs.

3) On the other hand, this only pertains to a handfull of teams. So do we affect everyone because of a select few? Also, would the split play-offs help some private schools? For example, several small private schools that struggle (due to enrollment or lack of recruitable tradition), then they get to compete against other like schools in the same situation.

I don't know the real answer...just my thoughts...any feedback would be great.

[ryancsportsmom]

Originally Posted by huskerdoc63

I've been on the fence for this topic for a while now.

My thoughts:

1) Recruiting does happen. Yes tradition pulls kids in. However, I have been on a coaching staff where our athletes have been approached by private school coaches in various ways. Nuff said. Does this happen in public schools as well, more than likely yes. The programs I have been associated with have not.

2) I agree with the philosophy, to be the best is to beat the best. However, what does it say about your program if you lose to the "best" if the cards have been stacked against you? I see this happen in the lower divisions more often than not. You have a team that has a great class. They have had great success, then they meet up against a private school that is loaded and played a D1 schedule because of the talent they have amassed by whatever means. (Lets be real, a small school with multiple D1 athletes is rare, but it seems to happen to the private schools more often than the public schools although there are more public schools than private). That private school throttles that public school with a once in a life time class. How is that for high school football memories? That is the argument that I have for the issue that the schools should have seperate play-offs.

3) On the other hand, this only pertains to a handfull of teams. So do we affect everyone because of a select few? Also, would the split play-offs help some private schools? For example, several small private schools that struggle (due to enrollment or lack of recruitable tradition), then they get to compete against other like schools in the same situation.

I don't know the real answer...just my thoughts...any feedback would be great.

I'm against any separation.

Yes, you are right, public schools do recruit. My son (who goes to private school) got to listen to a public DVI coach try to recruit a friend of his (from a public school) all summer long last year at the local health club.

It's funny but there are lower division public schools that play DI schedules as well with lots of kids being recruited by DI colleges. I guess that's what happens when you put together a strong program and put a coach in charge that knows how to assess talent, develop talent and put a winning team on the field.

There are far too many people who want this to be about their stereotyped perception of what goes on in private schools. They don't want to even acknowledge that, just like public schools, private schools are not all the same.

[cleetmud1]

Play ball,why mess it up?

[Dbizzle71]

I am totally against seperation! First, it will not solve anything. You will still have schools and fans crying. One thing people need to face is that most public schools lack the pool of talent or coaching in their respective communities. Recruiting, I am so tired of hearing how private schools get the best players by recruiting kids that should go to public schools. Most public schools have open enrollment with surrounding districts. You don't think Little Johnny goes to School A because School B has a terrible program. I know for a fact it happens. I come from a public school district, my kids go to a public school and 99% of my relatives go to or have graduated from a public. We need to drop the issue, move on and focus on keeping the parents from influencing coaching staffs on who starts and who sits. Now that is a problem. Parents living their dream through their kids.

[JAKid50]

Against. I'm all the way to the other end of the spectrum. Have one champion in basketball like Indiana used to.

[nerker]

I am for trying it for 5 years. Why not? We've had it this way forever let's try it out then vote after the trial period.

[buckeyedan]

I don't want to see separation...
For one I think it will REALLY hurt the private schools...
$ wise nobody goes to their games comparatively (two publics draw far more in the big sports)
For another there just aren't enough to have much of a tourney (vast majority aren't competitive in a given sport as they tend to concentrate their efforts to a handful of sports)

That said...
Two points:

1) Those that are all about "you have to play the best to be the best"... don't believe it
You don't think your HS should play the NY Giants...
Why not? They are world champs so if you want to be the best...

Obviously that's silly - but proves you don't mean it so stop saying things you don't mean

Heck nobody would want to see Marion Local play St. Ignatius... wouldn't be remotely competitive...

Again... I don't see a lot of support for eliminating divisions in football
So unless you are for eliminating divisions completely don't give me the rhetoric of "give everyone a trophy" because you don't even believe what you are saying

Have a meaningful conversation don't just throw out tired phrases to try to pump your chest...

2) Bottom line is Ross is playing chicken
He doesn't want the multiplier so he's betting members won't vote to split

They put the multiplier out there with things they KNEW were not popular like the Tradition and Econ factors in hopes it wouldn't pass
Then they know this vote on separation will come up

This way they can claim they listened why forcing their result (which is a minority opinion and they know it) on everyone

In the news conference after reporters asked him why they were not putting the plan out with ONLY the boundary part and NOT the tradition/econ that many were opposed to and ross started rambling about how "you can't" which is both dishonest and stupid

Obviously you can
Everyone knows it would pass easily
This is why he won’t put it out

So let’s hope his game of chicken works because the OHSAA is playing games with HS Sports rather than letting their members have a real say

OHSAA needs a complete overhaul
They are so dishonest, corrupt and fail completely to address the needs of their members...
Time for house cleaning and massive reform or just an end to the OHSAA

[K-Zone]

Originally Posted by buckeyedan

I don't want to see separation...
For one I think it will REALLY hurt the private schools...
$ wise nobody goes to their games comparatively (two publics draw far more in the big sports)
For another there just aren't enough to have much of a tourney (vast majority aren't competitive in a given sport as they tend to concentrate their efforts to a handful of sports)

That said...
Two points:

1) Those that are all about "you have to play the best to be the best"... don't believe it
You don't think your HS should play the NY Giants...
Why not? They are world champs so if you want to be the best...

Obviously that's silly - but proves you don't mean it so stop saying things you don't mean

Heck nobody would want to see Marion Local play St. Ignatius... wouldn't be remotely competitive...

Again... I don't see a lot of support for eliminating divisions in football
So unless you are for eliminating divisions completely don't give me the rhetoric of "give everyone a trophy" because you don't even believe what you are saying

Have a meaningful conversation don't just throw out tired phrases to try to pump your chest...

2) Bottom line is Ross is playing chicken
He doesn't want the multiplier so he's betting members won't vote to split

They put the multiplier out there with things they KNEW were not popular like the Tradition and Econ factors in hopes it wouldn't pass
Then they know this vote on separation will come up

This way they can claim they listened why forcing their result (which is a minority opinion and they know it) on everyone

In the news conference after reporters asked him why they were not putting the plan out with ONLY the boundary part and NOT the tradition/econ that many were opposed to and ross started rambling about how "you can't" which is both dishonest and stupid

Obviously you can
Everyone knows it would pass easily
This is why he won’t put it out

So let’s hope his game of chicken works because the OHSAA is playing games with HS Sports rather than letting their members have a real say

OHSAA needs a complete overhaul
They are so dishonest, corrupt and fail completely to address the needs of their members...
Time for house cleaning and massive reform or just an end to the OHSAA

I don't think it's fair to call the OHSAA corrupt or dishonest. They only address issues that their members want addressed. Enough of them wanted competitive balance, just not the solutions presented. I bet there are many schools who like the tradition factor.

Most privates have kids who are financially better off, have a strong home life with a father influence, married or divorced and thrive on the higher expectations that a private school demands. I also know that some families send their kids to private schools even though it causes them financial strain.

I don't like the separate playoff idea, but I do think it needs tweaked.

[o.a.b.]

If you want true fairness,parochial versus private isn't the gist of the argument.Competetive balance should include a basic premise already integrated into the DI,D2,D3.....that the denser the population,the more talent is available.I'd take it a step further : All schools are assessed a ratio,over and above enrollment numbers that includes your enrollment versus the county enrollment.A DI in midwest Ohio or southeast Ohio is never going to have the same talent available as a DI out of Columbus,Cincy...nor will a D2.If this formula just happens to include parochials from urban areas,so be it.Seperate play-offs may look good on paper but the private/parochial situation is not the majority of the problem.

[ex_dc_atc]

In the end, I would like to have some sort of competitive balance with privates at the smaller school levels such as DIV - DVI. However, if a fair resolution can't be found, I would rather see it stay the same. I would hate a split among private vs. public. I want to see the best teams compete against one another, not in separate playoffs.