The Dusty Baker Thread

NC Rattlesnake · (#1)

Read the poll above and vote in it, fellow Reds fans.

Rotinaj · (#2)

If the Reds arent 500 or better by the 1st of next month give him the boot.

Lancer '65 · (#3)

The Reds had a nice season last year. The Reds have their ups and downs but most teams do, so I can't stipulate a specific date for the firing of Dusty. I think we're only 10 games in and there needs to be an opportunity for the Reds to start playing better and rising in the standings. Boston started 0-4 and the Tribe started slow also and things are already better on both teams. Give the Reds a chance to play well. They have good players. They will be fine.

fbgom · (#4)

I was a kid in the 70's when the Reds and Los Angeles would battle it out yearly for the NL West crown. Given that Baker was a member of those hated Dodger teams, I was never in favor of his hiring. However, since "never should have been hired" is not an answer, I'd say it is still too early in the season to make the decision to fire him. All-Star break would seem about right if they bumble along, sooner if they really look like they are going in the tank.

I'm really hoping they right the ship..for the team's sake and the fans, not for Baker's.

Lancer '65 · (#5)

I agree with you, fbgom.

It should always be about the welfare of the team, not the manager. I think it's important not to throw managers under the bus easily because it isn't a good precedent to get started.

eaton7911 · (#6)

The Reds are the persona of their manager. They are laid back and it is ok if you don't win, we are not expected to win. These young guys need someone to light a fire under their a$$.

14Red · (#7)

This isn't necessarily a fire Dusty because of incompetetance. There just comes a time when a manager has to get his players to perform, and the Reds are underperforming. They underperformed most of last year. Dusty's loyal to a fault, and sometimes you have to shake things up to get guys to perform. Dusty's patience has been great for a player like Brandon Phillips, who had some attitude problems years ago. He's now an all star calibler player whose seen the light.
There just does not seem to be any sense of urgency with this team at times. They are struggling hitting, there's no hit and run, no straight steal. Yesterday's a good point, but the players bailed him out.
11th inning. Stubbs singles to start the inning. You have one of the fastest players in baseball on first, a right handed reliever (Clippard) on the mound. Valez is up. Don't you at least consider staight stealing Stubbs??? Valez tries to sacrafice and pops out. The Reds have two stolen bases for the season, and one was yesterday by Rolen because no one was holding him on. I think when you are struggling like the Reds are, you need to manfactuer runs, put pressure on the defense. They seem content with swinging for the fences.

19AL63 · (#8)

My wife being the Reds fan, this was her vote and she complains all the time that Dusty does not show any emotion no matter how the game is going.

runningfool · (#9)

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaton7911

The Reds are the persona of their manager. They are laid back and it is ok if you don't win, we are not expected to win. These young guys need someone to light a fire under their a$$.

To me, this may be more telling than anything. One player just signed a 7 year contract and another 12 years, each for a gazillion dollars. With long term, guaranteed dollars like that, how does one motivate them day in and day out?

NC Rattlesnake · (#10)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotinaj

If the Reds arent 500 or better by the 1st of next month give him the boot.

B2A!

bird · (#11)

Here we go again. Surprised it took a whole 10 games for this to get going. Before I go through my laundry list here, let me say that I am not really a Dusty Baker fan. I'm just trying to think through these issues a bit. My number one question is: For those of you who are anti-Dusty, how many wins per year do you think he costs the team? If the Reds fire Dusty Baker it's OK with me, I just don't see why anyone thinks that the Reds would somehow start piling up wins if another manager were filling out the lineup card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19AL63

My wife being the Reds fan, this was her vote and she complains all the time that Dusty does not show any emotion no matter how the game is going.

You mean the same way Joe Torre comported himself when he was leading the Yankees to all those World Series titles?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaton7911

The Reds are the persona of their manager. They are laid back and it is ok if you don't win, we are not expected to win. These young guys need someone to light a fire under their a$$.

This is always laughable. Somehow you've been able to take the temperature of the clubhouse, and you've determined that it's OK among the players if they lose. And that another manager would somehow make them play harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by runningfool

To me, this may be more telling than anything. One player just signed a 7 year contract and another 12 years, each for a gazillion dollars. With long term, guaranteed dollars like that, how does one motivate them day in and day out?

My counter to this would be, do you really think the Reds would give long term contracts to players whose only motivation is getting a long term contract? I think you're selling Votto and Phillips short from a motivation and professionalism standpoint.

dorciepatrick · (#12)

Just think though, bird.....If the Reds fire Dusty, everything will be perfect. All the players will immediately snap out of their slumps. No one in the bullpen will give up runs in the late innings. The starters will all go 7-9 innings with quality starts. Nobody will get injured. All of the strategic moves will work.
Oh please, Walt Jocketty, why can't you see that -- for the Reds to cruise to a World Series victory -- all you have to do is fire Dusty Baker?

dorciepatrick · (#13)

It always strikes me as funny that most of those who advocate firing a manager have no idea of 1) who the replacement would be, and 2) what someone else would do that is better.
Funny, no one ever says what Dusty is doing that is so awful. The Reds are 4-6. They've played 10 games out of 162. Exactly what is it that people can see that Dusty is doing to cause him to be fired?

I'm all for making the Reds better -- no matter who the manager may be. Let's hear from some of the "Let's Fire Dusty" cohorts what their plan is to make the Reds a better ballclub.

lmavcch3 · (#14)

I don't see Jocketty firing anyone during the season.

Lancer '65 · (#15)

I guess the biggest frustration I have is that we are putrid against the Cardinals. Hopefully, the Reds will get on a roll and the pitching and hitting will come together enabling the team to begin to get a little momentum. It's a very long way to the end of the season and there is (at the moment), no real cause for alarm, but we need to play better.

Polar Bear 73 · (#16)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancer '65

I guess the biggest frustration I have is that we are putrid against the Cardinals. Hopefully, the Reds will get on a roll and the pitching and hitting will come together enabling the team to begin to get a little momentum. It's a very long way to the end of the season and there is (at the moment), no real cause for alarm, but we need to play better.

A couple of days ago I would have agreed with you Lancer, but after these last 2 fiascos in St Louis, I think it is time to start being somewhat alarmed. 12 games is a pretty good sampling, and there is no signs of them turning it around, if anything it seems to be going down hill. Here are a couple facts to munch on. They have scored only a single run in 4 of the last 5, and 6 of the last nine games. The starting pitchers have not won a game since opening day, but it is not the pitchers fault. Every time they have scored more than 3 runs, they won.

If I was seeing any positive signs, like Bruce, Rolen, or Stubbs starting to swing the bat better, or a little more aggressiveness on the base paths, anything; then I might not be alarmed. But I'm just not seeing it.

Something good needs to happen to this club to light a fire, and I think it needs to happen quickly. They could be 6 back after today. I know there is still plenty of time, but if this "slump" lasts another week or two, they could very easily be 10-12 games back. It is hard to make up that kind of deficit against a team like St Louis.

NC Rattlesnake · (#17)

I think my high school's softball team could beat the Reds this year. At least they can score.

So embarrassing to watch them go so far down hill and not improving themselves.

eaton7911 · (#18)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird

Here we go again. Surprised it took a whole 10 games for this to get going. Before I go through my laundry list here, let me say that I am not really a Dusty Baker fan. I'm just trying to think through these issues a bit. My number one question is: For those of you who are anti-Dusty, how many wins per year do you think he costs the team? If the Reds fire Dusty Baker it's OK with me, I just don't see why anyone thinks that the Reds would somehow start piling up wins if another manager were filling out the lineup card.

You mean the same way Joe Torre comported himself when he was leading the Yankees to all those World Series titles?

This is always laughable. Somehow you've been able to take the temperature of the clubhouse, and you've determined that it's OK among the players if they lose. And that another manager would somehow make them play harder.

My counter to this would be, do you really think the Reds would give long term contracts to players whose only motivation is getting a long term contract? I think you're selling Votto and Phillips short from a motivation and professionalism standpoint.

Don't know about the clubhouse, only what I see. Since this is just an opinion I thought I would ask you. What do you do? You seem to think everyone else is wrong what about you??????? Since my last post the Reds have taken it up the ole b$$$ and nothing is getting better. Can't believe Votto signed, would have waited and then sprinted as fast as I could out of Cincinnati. Something needs to change and the manager is always the easiest thing. Can't change the roster

bird · (#19)

The manager is the easiest thing to change...which is exactly why it's kind of foolish to expect big improvements just by changing the manager. If I knew what the Reds should do, I'd be getting paid big bucks by the organization right now. My opinion is that changing the manager and expecting the new guy to instantly get the team to play harder or better is grasping at straws.

If the Reds didn't fire Baker for batting Corey Patterson in the leadoff spot for much of the 2008 season, I don't what they would fire him for now.

When the Reds are in a funk like they have been lately, it's not a matter of reshuffling the lineup or calling for a stolen base more often. It's pretty simple - a team hitting .205 is not going to win games. If you want to fire the manager because the team has been hitting the ball poorly that's fine. But why would you expect guys to just start hitting the ball better because somebody new is filling out the lineup card?

If the Reds' front office thought there was something wrong in the clubhouse or with the attitude of the team, they would take action. Since they're not, I'm not sure why fans would think that Baker's personality is the reason why Stubbs strikes out so much.

Obviously Votto likes something about the Reds organization. There are a lot of other teams that could have signed him.

bird · (#20)

I would also like to bring up the Cardinals' situation. Given that they got Beltran to replace Pujols, many thought that LaRussa would be the big loss for the Cardinals. Instead, the Cardinals are right back in first place. Should Mike Matheny be given a contract extension right now? Would the Reds be in first place right now if they had hired Matheny in the offseason?