Voter Fraud: An example why voter IDs are needed

[tomindayton]

A guy goes into a Washington DC precinct, and without proving his identity, is given the ballot of US Attorney General Eric Holder.

Incredible!

YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5p70YbRiPw

Article: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

[o.a.b.]

So....................HE was at fault ?? Voter Id's might provide proof but won't fix the ineptness of the poll worker.You guys don't want national healthcare as an infringement on individual rights,I feel the same way about voter ID's.A national ID is no different than putting cattle into a pen.

[BGFalcons82]

I should think bethere would be proud of Mr. O'Keefe as he has parsed his words perfectly. He NEVER said he was Eric Holder, he only aksed if there was an Eric Holder in the poll-worker's book. As is the law in DC, the poll-worker is not responsible to aks for I.D., so he was indeed doing his "job", as pathetically as possible, but he wasn't acting illegally.

The irony of being permitted to attempt to disenfranchise the Attorney General to show him how absurd his side is on this issue, is very rich. Mr. O'Keefe has nailed the issue of how dead people, illegal immigrants, and those that like to "vote early and vote often" pull off their disenfranchisment of all legal voters.

[majorspark]

You guys don't want national healthcare as an infringement on individual rights,I feel the same way about voter ID's.A national ID is no different than putting cattle into a pen.

Who is advocting a National ID?

[NapRover]

Fact: people are prone to resort to whatever means are necessary to get what they want. Both sides will cheat if they can get away with it. We need voter id and other means to thin out some of the cheaters.

[tomindayton]

BGFalcons- The irony goes even deeper! I would think that ALL liberals would be proud of the efforts by Mr. O'Keefe in that the video was released at a time to perfectly serve as a memorial tribute to the man who was a trailblazer and heralded icon of electronic journalism. Imitation is the highest form of flattery, or so someone once said. RIP Mike Wallace.

[o.a.b.]

A voter ID will turn into a national ID,make no mistake about it.I don't want illegals or ineligibles voting either but a voter ID is akin to getting in bed with the government.They took a simple thing like an SSI # and re-defined it as your taxpayer ID #.What on earth would they do with a voter ID # ? To all eligible voters,not working---you are hereby ordered to report to the government encampment for employment...first,hit the "showers" in the name of disease control.

[docthehun]

A voter ID will turn into a national ID,make no mistake about it.I don't want illegals or ineligibles voting either but a voter ID is akin to getting in bed with the government.They took a simple thing like an SSI # and re-defined it as your taxpayer ID #.What on earth would they do with a voter ID # ? To all eligible voters,not working---you are hereby ordered to report to the government encampment for employment...first,hit the "showers" in the name of disease control.

If as you say, "I don't want illegals and ineligibles to vote", how do you propose to accomplish that feat without an ID? :confused:

[NBHS_1988]

Yes, Rev Al, if you think this is racism! Prove who you are by identification, then vote.

[o.a.b.]

If as you say, "I don't want illegals and ineligibles to vote", how do you propose to accomplish that feat without an ID? :confused:

Stop em at the border---like Bush DIDN'T.One more thing you guys neglected and now blame on the current administration.

[BGFalcons82]

BGFalcons- The irony goes even deeper! I would think that ALL liberals would be proud of the efforts by Mr. O'Keefe in that the video was released at a time to perfectly serve as a memorial tribute to the man who was a trailblazer and heralded icon of electronic journalism. Imitation is the highest form of flattery, or so someone once said. RIP Mike Wallace.
Good point, tom, about Mike Wallace. He had an equal-opportunity microscope that got under lots of people's skin. His son has the same knack. Isn't that refreshing? ;)

[BGFalcons82]

Stop em at the border---like Bush DIDN'T.One more thing you guys neglected and now blame on the current administration.
I'll do this ala bethere....

WHO IS PRESIDENT TODAY, YA MORON? I THOUGHT GEORGE BUSH WAS THROWN OUT OVER 3 YEARS AGO?

Just teasin ya, OAB about the moron stuff...just tryin to illustrate the absurd nature of our favorite know-it-all internet master. :eek:

[docthehun]

Stop em at the border---like Bush DIDN'T.One more thing you guys neglected and now blame on the current administration.

Okay, that works for me. Explain to me how we'll distinguish the illegal and ineligible already across the border?

[wkfan]

Stop em at the border---like Bush DIDN'T.One more thing you guys neglected and now blame on the current administration.

You are correct....neither President Bush had any meaningful imegration reform.

Neither did Clinton.
Neither did Reagan
Neither did Carter
Neither did Ford
Neither did Nixon
Neither did Johnson
Neither did Kennedy
Neither did Eisenhower
Neither did Truman

I think you get the drift.

The difference is that not one of these former Presidents encouraged or otherwise overtly tried to make illegals into citizens without going through the process set forth to obtain Citizenship except.........

President Barack Obama.

[fish82]

A voter ID will turn into a national ID,make no mistake about it.I don't want illegals or ineligibles voting either but a voter ID is akin to getting in bed with the government.They took a simple thing like an SSI # and re-defined it as your taxpayer ID #.What on earth would they do with a voter ID # ? To all eligible voters,not working---you are hereby ordered to report to the government encampment for employment...first,hit the "showers" in the name of disease control.

With all due respect, this is just inane drivel.

There are several existing methods to prove identity at the poll. For christsakes, just bring your farking cellphone bill with your name and address on it.

[Wingman3]

With all due respect, this is just inane drivel.

There are several existing methods to prove identity at the poll. For christsakes, just bring your farking cellphone bill with your name and address on it.

THAT'S DISENFRANCHISING THE POOR THEN! YA MORON!

Just kidding... that's the response though... that the poor and old people don't have cell phones, but that seems to be one of the "luxuries" that no one gets rid of, but aren't there government subsidized plans that the old and poor can get to have a cell phone?

If not a cell phone how about a credit card bill?

How are the poor buying their beer and smokes? Don't you need a photo ID to purchase those? Even if it's not a driver's license you can get a state issued ID so you could buy those things.

[tomindayton]

DOJ is in full-spin mode... says the video is manufactured.
Article: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/09/DOJ-Voter-Fraud-OKeefe

Like the O'Keefe comment, "I'll be back faster than you can say furious", some of the comments to the article are Priceless.

[Plotius]

O'Keefe has proven himself to be a liar and a fraud.
He has no credibility what so ever.

[jimmacqueen]

I guess I don't understand this issue. Here in Tallmadge, Ohio, I have to show a photo ID and be in the precinct book or I don't get a ballot. What's missing?

[Altordwm]

I guess I don't understand this issue. Here in Tallmadge, Ohio, I have to show a photo ID and be in the precinct book or I don't get a ballot. What's missing?

In Ohio, this isn't an issue. But this video was taken in Washington, D.C., where they don't require such ID. Furthermore, Holder and the DOJ are selectively blocking states like Texas from having such laws, but leaving states like Indiana and Ohio alone.

[tomindayton]

sleeper- nice pro-active comment and I agree. It is my opinion that this is a fair way to handle voter fraud.

Given the way Jamie Gurlick was able to successfully build the wall of info limitation between government departments back in pre-911, I have no doubt that voter information could be kept separate from other departments who might use it for nefarious purposes. I'll add that the IDs should be the responsibility of individual states, thus keeping the feds out of the situation.

[wisdome]

I guess I don't understand this issue. Here in Tallmadge, Ohio, I have to show a photo ID and be in the precinct book or I don't get a ballot. What's missing?

What is missing????What you want missed. Some states want to have the same thing you have in Tallmadge Ohio, but our friends in DC don't...go figure!

[jimmacqueen]

^I don't think that's true. I think the people who are trying to pass these laws are asking people to meet requirements that are much more difficult for the poor to meet.

[Altordwm]

^I don't think that's true. I think the people who are trying to pass these laws are asking people to meet requirements that are much more difficult for the poor to meet.

http://dmv.washingtondc.gov/serv/idservices/freenondriverid.shtm

[NapRover]

I guess I don't understand this issue. Here in Tallmadge, Ohio, I have to show a photo ID and be in the precinct book or I don't get a ballot. What's missing?

I'm no Kreskin, but I predict you have very low voter fraud there.:)

p.s. is half your town disenfranchised?

[wattersoneagle]

Why is getting an ID difficult? I truly don't know the answer to this. I've seen pages like the one linked above to the DC gov page. What would be a reason to not be able to get one.

[bethere]

Why is getting an ID difficult? I truly don't know the answer to this. I've seen pages like the one linked above to the DC gov page. What would be a reason to not be able to get one.

we tire of explaining it over and over. it just is. we will get the laws changed. your party will be thrown out in the street, as it cannot be saved.

it's not that you can't understand, it's because you won't understand and you have wasted enough of our time.

like the federalists, the know-nothings, and the whigs, the gop will be just another blurred footnote in the history books. you didn't learn, you didn't adapt. you didn't survive.

C'ya!

[minsterman]

You are correct....neither President Bush had any meaningful imegration reform.

Neither did Clinton.
Neither did Reagan
Neither did Carter
Neither did Ford
Neither did Nixon
Neither did Johnson
Neither did Kennedy
Neither did Eisenhower
Neither did Truman

I think you get the drift.

The difference is that not one of these former Presidents encouraged or otherwise overtly tried to make illegals into citizens without going through the process set forth to obtain Citizenship except.........

President Barack Obama.

post of the day!!!!!!

[wattersoneagle]

Why is it hard for anyone to get an ID? "It just is"

What the hell kind of response is that. This is a legitimate question. I have seen pages like the one cited herein from Washington. The clearly illustrate how any resident can obtain an ID. Why is that not doable?

[minsterman]

we tire of explaining it over and over. it just is. we will get the laws changed. your party will be thrown out in the street, as it cannot be saved.

it's not that you can't understand, it's because you won't understand and you have wasted enough of our time.

like the federalists, the know-nothings, and the whigs, the gop will be just another blurred footnote in the history books. you didn't learn, you didn't adapt. you didn't survive.

C'ya!

nice answer--IT JUST IS---classic response......u really dont have a clue do u!!!

[minsterman]

Why is it hard for anyone to get an ID? "It just is"

What the hell kind of response is that. This is a legitimate question. I have seen pages like the one cited herein from Washington. The clearly illustrate how any resident can obtain an ID. Why is that not doable?

it's amazing that some "people" think like this .......:rolleyes:

[minsterman]

A guy goes into a Washington DC precinct, and without proving his identity, is given the ballot of US Attorney General Eric Holder.

Incredible!

YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5p70YbRiPw

Article: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

Tom thank you very much for the above, that needs to be sent to every americans email... do u know if Holder has responded to this yet, or Jay Carney has talked about this.....or the White house has commented on it......or by for gosh sakes NBC or MSNBC has shown it?:rolleyes:

[minsterman]

would love to actually see what people have to say about the youtube video that Tom posted......I'm not amazed at all that this happens, I laughed pretty loud after watching it, and it does prove that SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.....and i would love to be a fly on the wall when Obama, Holder and other notable democrats see this ....

[minsterman]

So....................HE was at fault ?? Voter Id's might provide proof but won't fix the ineptness of the poll worker.You guys don't want national healthcare as an infringement on individual rights,I feel the same way about voter ID's.A national ID is no different than putting cattle into a pen.

and the HITS just keep on coming........

[minsterman]

A voter ID will turn into a national ID,make no mistake about it.I don't want illegals or ineligibles voting either but a voter ID is akin to getting in bed with the government.They took a simple thing like an SSI # and re-defined it as your taxpayer ID #.What on earth would they do with a voter ID # ? To all eligible voters,not working---you are hereby ordered to report to the government encampment for employment...first,hit the "showers" in the name of disease control.

and then whats next.....Soylent GREEN............

[fish82]

we tire of explaining it over and over. it just is. we will get the laws changed. your party will be thrown out in the street, as it cannot be saved.

it's not that you can't understand, it's because you won't understand and you have wasted enough of our time.

like the federalists, the know-nothings, and the whigs, the gop will be just another blurred footnote in the history books. you didn't learn, you didn't adapt. you didn't survive.

C'ya!

LOL.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/rloyei/gif.gif

[DGUtley]

One citizen, one vote. What's so difficult about that?

[docthehun]

Okay, that works for me. Explain to me how we'll distinguish the illegal and ineligible already across the border?

My young liberal friend, I'm still waiting! :D (I might borrow from one of your own and not let you off the hook until you answer. Bear in mind that every Thursday (that includes every single Thanksgiving) since 1991 I have processed payroll. You think some of my fellow Republicans are stubborn, hard a**es, you ain't seen nothing yet! :D)

"Earth calling O.A.B." (I'm sorry, I happen to be in an especially good mood for some unknown reason.)

[BradleyJaguars]

^I don't think that's true. I think the people who are trying to pass these laws are asking people to meet requirements that are much more difficult for the poor to meet.

Simply not factual. Anyone wanting an ID can get one free of charge.

[wattersoneagle]

I am still waiting for someone to explain what is so hard about obtaining an ID. The DC link up there even says the whole thing is free of charge for someone who is homeless of a former prisoner. So why is this so difficult?

[jimmacqueen]

Why is getting an ID difficult? I truly don't know the answer to this. I've seen pages like the one linked above to the DC gov page. What would be a reason to not be able to get one.

Transportation to the agency responsible for issuing. In ability to read or write. No money to pay the fee. Lack of communication resources to know they need to try to get one. Etc.

[jimmacqueen]

Simply not factual. Anyone wanting an ID can get one free of charge.

Simply NOT true. Agencies charge fees for IDs.

[bethere]

Simply NOT true. Agencies charge fees for IDs.

he uses a program in DC to make a point that you can do this in every other state and jurisdiction in the country and it just isn't true.

another good call, sir.

[wattersoneagle]

Transportation to the agency responsible for issuing. In ability to read or write. No money to pay the fee. Lack of communication resources to know they need to try to get one. Etc.

Thank you for answering. Your response brings a follow-up question:

The agency in DC doesn't charge a fee for their ID's. A quick search online showed me several other states that exlicitly say that ID cards can be gotten for free. The other areas of problem - reading, writing, communication resources, etc, I just don't buy. Just because someone is poor or homeless doesn't mean they aren't able to understand something of this nature. In order to vote, they'd have to be able to read/understand to some basic level. I would suppose the voting itself to be more complicated than obtaining an ID.

Do you truly believe it is unreasonable for anyone who is entitled to obtain an ID card?

[wisdome]

I am still waiting for someone to explain what is so hard about obtaining an ID. The DC link up there even says the whole thing is free of charge for someone who is homeless of a former prisoner. So why is this so difficult?

You will not get a response. They make it a class issue...poor this....minority that! But they forget that for many of the "entitlement" programs they have so close to thier hearts they do require ID...and if they don't...wrong also!

[minsterman]

I am still waiting for someone to explain what is so hard about obtaining an ID. The DC link up there even says the whole thing is free of charge for someone who is homeless of a former prisoner. So why is this so difficult?

the crickets in here are amazingly quiet.......

[o.a.b.]

and then whats next.....Soylent GREEN............

The fact is : Any "ID" with the government soon loses it puritanical intentions.It WILL be used by the government for causes that were not intended.As the comic strip writer of Pogo used to say--"They'll do it every time" Maybe we'd be better off sending the illegals off into a witch hunt searching for WMD's........Since GWB opened the doors FIRST,we'll let him head the project.Heck,they might even stumble onto some lost votes along the way

[DGUtley]

As much as you distrust the government, you are still willing to let it run healthcare?

[minsterman]

The fact is : Any "ID" with the government soon loses it puritanical intentions.It WILL be used by the government for causes that were not intended.As the comic strip writer of Pogo used to say--"They'll do it every time" Maybe we'd be better off sending the illegals off into a witch hunt searching for WMD's........Since GWB opened the doors FIRST,we'll let him head the project.Heck,they might even stumble onto some lost votes along the way

u know u maybe right, since i got my drivers licences, i think there has been a Black helicopter following me........:rolleyes:

[BradleyJaguars]

Simply NOT true. Agencies charge fees for IDs.

They are free to those who can't afford them.

[wisdome]

They are free to those who can't afford them.

You are right on. On the other hand the Demos want us to believe that poor people are in such a predicament today that they can have a cell phone (thanks to the goverment), buy some smokes, food, etc but not enough to pay for an ID (as the Demos say) to ensure that their voice is heard.

Go figure that when you lie so much you start believing your own lies!

Change we can believe in!

[sleeper]

Make the IDs free for those making under $20,000 per year. Anyone making above that they can't afford a $10 ID for the right to vote should not be allowed to vote.

Problem solved.

[o.a.b.]

As much as you distrust the government, you are still willing to let it run healthcare?

They've already got THAT number and they're ALREADY into it to the hilt.Take a look at the subsidies that the average hospital gets,that's not going to slow down or stop.

[o.a.b.]

Make the IDs free for those making under $20,000 per year. Anyone making above that they can't afford a $10 ID for the right to vote should not be allowed to vote.

Problem solved.

If you charge one measly penny for an ID,it then becomes a CONTRACT with the government---WHO do you think will write the rules,regulations and requirements on that ID ? It sure as hill won't be the recipient.National ID = opening a gate of stampeding cattle.Charging for the right to vote is the same as a poll tax which is illegal in this country.[ and it damn better stay that way]

[wisdome]

If you charge one measly penny for an ID,it then becomes a CONTRACT with the government---WHO do you think will write the rules,regulations and requirements on that ID ? It sure as hill won't be the recipient.National ID = opening a gate of stampeding cattle.Charging for the right to vote is the same as a poll tax which is illegal in this country.[ and it damn better stay that way]

ID is for all....rich and poor. Get over it!

[docthehun]

If as you say, "I don't want illegals and ineligibles to vote", how do you propose to accomplish that feat without an ID? :confused:

Did we move on without answering my question dear O.A.B.? (I think Bethere would agree you need to answer after making the "I don't want...." statement.) :)

PS - I may continue to pursue this! :D

[bethere]

Did we move on without answering my question dear O.A.B.? (I think Bethere would agree you need to answer after making the "I don't want...." statement.) :)

PS - I may continue to pursue this! :D

I AGREE WITH THIS.

LOOK. GIVE EVERYONE AN ID. MAKE IT EASY TO GET. GIVE THEM TIME ENOUGH TO GET IT WITHOUT AFFECTING ANY IMPORTANT UPCOMING ELECTIONS. MAKE IT FREE.

I'D SIGN UP.. BUT THAT DIDN'T WORK IN TEXAS. AND THAT EXPOSED WHAT THEIR REAL INTENTIONS WERE, HUH?

I FIND IT AWESOMELY AMAZING THAT THE PARTY WHO OPPOSED SOCIAL SECURITY BASED ON THE NOTION THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE A NATIONAL CARD OR NUMBER WOULD HAVE US GET A CARD AND A NUMBER IN ORDER TO VOTE.

THAT TOO REVEALS THE GOP'S TRUE INTENTIONS AS WELL AS THEIR TIGHT WIRE WALK FROM CONSERVATISM TO FASCISM.

AND, NO I AM AM TOTALLY UNIMPRESSED BY THAT.

[wattersoneagle]

The Democratic party opposed abolition. Does that mean they see voter ID cards as a way to legitimize people who could somehow be returned to the shackles?

[BGFalcons82]

The Democratic party opposed abolition. Does that mean they see voter ID cards as a way to legitimize people who could somehow be returned to the shackles?
The Democrats are the masters at owning the plantation...even to this day. Only difference is that Da Man resides in Washington, DC

[bethere]

The Democratic party opposed abolition. Does that mean they see voter ID cards as a way to legitimize people who could somehow be returned to the shackles?

90% of african americans voted for gore.

90% of african americans voted for kerry.

95% of african americans voted for obama.

95% of african americans will vote for him again this fall...


don't confuse your ignorance with them. they understand all of this and will vote accordingly.


THANKS ONCE AGAIN FOR FOLLOWING ME FROM THREAD TO THREAD LIKE A PUPPY DOG.

[bethere]

The Democrats are the masters at owning the plantation...even to this day. Only difference is that Da Man resides in Washington, DC

I used to party with Mary Ellen Mazey back in the day. She is simply too cool to be the president of BG. You aren't worthy.

*amen*

if you are ever cool enough to meet her, ask her about the sink hole behind the house she grew up in as a child in kentucky... a truly great comment on life in the commonwealth.

[NBCparent10]

90% of african americans voted for gore.

90% of african americans voted for kerry.

95% of african americans voted for obama.

95% of african americans will vote for him again this fall...


don't confuse your ignorance with them. they understand all of this and will vote accordingly.


THANKS ONCE AGAIN FOR FOLLOWING ME FROM THREAD TO THREAD LIKE A PUPPY DOG.


So you are saying that they will follow slave behavior and vote as they always have, as they are told? sounds pretty racist to me on your part!

[fish82]

90% of african americans voted for gore.

90% of african americans voted for kerry.

95% of african americans voted for obama.

95% of african americans will vote for him again this fall...


don't confuse your ignorance with them. they understand all of this and will vote accordingly.


They understand to keep banging on the same lever, so they can get their cheese cube.

[tomindayton]

90% of african americans voted for gore.

90% of african americans voted for kerry.

95% of african americans voted for obama.

95% of african americans will vote for him again this fall...


don't confuse your ignorance with them. they understand all of this and will vote accordingly.


THANKS ONCE AGAIN FOR FOLLOWING ME FROM THREAD TO THREAD LIKE A PUPPY DOG.


I actually think that 95% number is probably too low of an estimate, especially with the way liberals are opposed to voter IDs. My guess is they are hoping they can get 115% or even more of the A-A vote.
:rolleyes:

[sleeper]

If you charge one measly penny for an ID,it then becomes a CONTRACT with the government---WHO do you think will write the rules,regulations and requirements on that ID ? It sure as hill won't be the recipient.National ID = opening a gate of stampeding cattle.Charging for the right to vote is the same as a poll tax which is illegal in this country.[ and it damn better stay that way]

So let's just let anyone vote. What a country, you don't even need to be a citizen to vote!

[wisdome]

So let's just let anyone vote. What a country, you don't even need to be a citizen to vote!

That is the Liberal position taken out of the Liberal Drink the Koolaid Handbook!

[wattersoneagle]

I used to party with Mary Ellen Mazey back in the day. She is simply too cool to be the president of BG. You aren't worthy.

*amen*

if you are ever cool enough to meet her, ask her about the sink hole behind the house she grew up in as a child in kentucky... a truly great comment on life in the commonwealth.

It was inevitable that you'd start name dropping sooner or later. It'll start with university presidents and move on up I'm sure. Based on your distorted view of things, you've been front and center for all major partisan showdowns in Washington over the past 20 years, so we can't wait to hear who else you used to "party with...back in the day."

[wattersoneagle]

90% of african americans voted for gore.

90% of african americans voted for kerry.

95% of african americans voted for obama.

95% of african americans will vote for him again this fall...


don't confuse your ignorance with them. they understand all of this and will vote accordingly.


THANKS ONCE AGAIN FOR FOLLOWING ME FROM THREAD TO THREAD LIKE A PUPPY DOG.


Heard mentality like that is frightening. Anytime I seel numbers like that, I know something's wrong. Reminds me of the fact that 90% of German voters elected Chanceller Hitler to Reich Leader in 1934. Only a year into his power, and prior to the process of imprisoning his country, he also had blanket adorations.

I live in Cleveland. You can count on the African American residents of this city voting in those types of numbers for mayors and county commissioners.

The result is a history of corruption almost unique in big city America. But Jimmy Dimora was appreciative.

[bethere]

I actually think that 95% number is probably too low of an estimate, especially with the way liberals are opposed to voter IDs. My guess is they are hoping they can get 115% or even more of the A-A vote.
:rolleyes:


i think that if i post you will most surely eventually respond.

WE NEED A LIBERAL MODERATOR. YOU ARE UNABLE AND CERTAINLY UNWILLING TO REMAIN OBJECTIVE. YOU HAVEN'T TRIED TO HAVE ME BANNED IN OVER A WEEK. ARE YOU FEELING OK?

have a disturbing day.

[bethere]

So let's just let anyone vote. What a country, you don't even need to be a citizen to vote!

ABSOLUTELY. WE CALL THIS DEMOCRACY. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT MAY I SUGGEST THAT YOU MOVE TO CHINA OR PERHAPS CUBA?

[bethere]

Heard mentality like that is frightening. Anytime I seel numbers like that, I know something's wrong. Reminds me of the fact that 90% of German voters elected Chanceller Hitler to Reich Leader in 1934. Only a year into his power, and prior to the process of imprisoning his country, he also had blanket adorations.

I live in Cleveland. You can count on the African American residents of this city voting in those types of numbers for mayors and county commissioners.

The result is a history of corruption almost unique in big city America. But Jimmy Dimora was appreciative.

I SUSPECT BLACKS IN SOUTH AFRICA UNDER APARTHEID AND JEWS IN WW2 GERMANY WOULD HAVE VOTED AS A BLOCK IN THE SAME FASHION.

[bethere]

So you are saying that they will follow slave behavior and vote as they always have, as they are told? sounds pretty racist to me on your part!

I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT, RATHER, YOU DID.

THAT'S BECAUSE:

1--READING ISN'T ONE OF YOUR STRENGTHS;
2--YOU ARE A MORON.

[wattersoneagle]

I SUSPECT BLACKS IN SOUTH AFRICA UNDER APARTHEID AND JEWS IN WW2 GERMANY WOULD HAVE VOTED AS A BLOCK IN THE SAME FASHION.

So so you think African Americans' station in the 2012 US and blacks in S Africa or Jews in WWII Germany is similar? Are those things evern remotely close in your mind?

[wisdome]

I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT, RATHER, YOU DID.

THAT'S BECAUSE:

1--READING ISN'T ONE OF YOUR STRENGTHS;
2--YOU ARE A MORON.

Learn the language (sounds familiar)!

[bethere]

It was inevitable that you'd start name dropping sooner or later. It'll start with university presidents and move on up I'm sure. Based on your distorted view of things, you've been front and center for all major partisan showdowns in Washington over the past 20 years, so we can't wait to hear who else you used to "party with...back in the day."

I HAVE LED AN INTERESTING LIFE, I AM SORRY THAT YOU FIND THAT THREATENING.

[bethere]

So so you think African Americans' station in the 2012 US and blacks in S Africa or Jews in WWII Germany is similar? Are those things evern remotely close in your mind?

DID I SAY THAT THEY WERE, YA MORON?

SHOW ME WHERE... PLEASE QUOTE ME DIRECTLY.

THEY AREN'T DISSIMILAR THOUGH... WE 'IMPORTED' AGAINST THEIR WILL VIRTUALLY EVERY AFRICAN-AMERICAN IN THIS COUNTRY. WE HELD THEM HERE AGAINST THEIR WILL FOR CENTURIES. THE GERMANS DIDN'T IMPORT THE JEWS WITH AN INTENT TO ENSLAVE THEM AND NEITHER DID THE SOUTH AFRICANS. SO IN MANY WAYS? OUR EXPERIENCE IS WORSE THAN THOSE I LISTED. WE ENSLAVED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SO YOU BUMS COULD HAVE CHEAP LABOR IMPUTS. WE FOUGHT A WAR IN WHICH 600,000 AMERICANS WERE DESTINED TO DIE STUPID DEATHS TO DEFEND THOSE CHEAP LABOR INPUTS.

I'LL TELL YOU WHAT... LET'S PLAY THE STAND YOUR GROUND GAME.

1--WE'LL PAINT YOU IN BLACK FACE;
2--WE'LL ARM YOU WITH JUST BAG OF SKITTLES AND A BOTTLE OF UNSWEETENED ICE TEA;
3--WE'LL GIVE YOU A TWENTY SECOND HEAD START;
4--WE GET A SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPON AND A LAW WRITTEN TO ABSOLVE US OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY IF WE DECIDE TO SHOOT YOU.
5--AND IF YOU MAKE IT TO YOUR STEP MOM'S HOUSE ALIVE WE STILL WON'T LET YOU VOTE.

LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU ARE READY TO BEGIN.

[wattersoneagle]

You posT suggests a strong similarity between those three groups. The difference I see is that African. Americans live in a free society, albeit with a minority of haters. The Jews in WW II Germany and S African blacks under aparthied did not. I don't see those as similar. And I know there are many African Americans who don't either. That's why voting straight ticket regardless of issue, person, argument, etc is concerning.

Talking about shooting me only tells me you have little faith in your argument.

[bethere]

You posT suggests a strong similarity between those three groups. The difference I see is that African. Americans live in a free society, albeit with a minority of haters. The Jews in WW II Germany and S African blacks under aparthied did not. I don't see those as similar. And I know there are many African Americans who don't either. That's why voting straight ticket regardless of issue, person, argument, etc is concerning.

Talking about shooting me only tells me you have little faith in your argument.

IF AFRICAN AMERICANS LIVED IN A FREE SOCIETY THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ONE OF THE ONLY TWO POLITICAL PARTIES DOING EVERYTHING THEY POSSIBLY CAN TO KEEP THEM FROM VOTING.

IN A FREE SOCIETY EVERYONE VOTES... THIS IS SOMETHING FAR LESS THAN A FREE SOCIETY.


now, i believe that you get a twenty second head start... better get moving hero..

[wattersoneagle]

And what is it being done to prevent them from voting?

[bethere]

And what is it being done to prevent them from voting?


dozens of new laws were enacted since the 2008 election to do just that.

thank you for playing our game, you fascist!

AND THANK YOU FOR FOLLOWING ME AROUND FROM THREAD TO THREAD LIKE A PUPPY DOG... I OWN YOU FOR REAL.

did i ever tell you of my personal dealings with the governor?

did you know that in the old days he was a pot head that most of us avoided so that our reputations wouldn't be sullied?

the stories i could tell!!!

[o.a.b.]

So let's just let anyone vote. What a country, you don't even need to be a citizen to vote!

You're missing the point--There IS a reason poll taxes or ANY exchange of monetary value is held seperate from the right to vote-It INSURES that votes are not cast under duress.To breach that point would be entirely Un-American.In actuallity,the spirit of this law should float all the way UP to Congress.Money should have little or no effect on matters of the public.Congressmen are human too-they've dropped their cross more than a few times,yielding to padded pockets over the best interest of the public.

[o.a.b.]

u know u maybe right, since i got my drivers licences, i think there has been a Black helicopter following me........:rolleyes:

..and I thought we had a serious discussion going.....must be 3:15,school's out......you could've stayed in study hall and impressed some of the freshman girls with your sophomore humor.You can't DISTORT the FACTS--Giving government the right to assign YET another # or ID to people doesn't represent freedom,it represents enrollment.Just keep rolling those eyes,the priest will be over shortly to exorcise the republican demons out of you and---YAY,YE SHALL SEE THE LIGHT !!!!!!

[docthehun]

Did we move on without answering my question dear O.A.B.? (I think Bethere would agree you need to answer after making the "I don't want...." statement.) :)

PS - I may continue to pursue this! :D

Yet another days passes without an answer. Are we avoiding the question? Bethere agreed an answer was warranted, and as we all know (if you don't, he'll tell you) his word is as good as Gosple. Not to mention, he makes Rush's Right look like centerfield.

So you don't have to look back through the posts. You've stated you didn't want illegals or ineligibles voting and you'd use the military to seal the border. But you're opposed to requiring identification. My question was, if you stop the inflow, how do you keep the illegals and ineligbles that are already here, from voting if you don't require an I.D.? :)

[wattersoneagle]

bethere, you stories about Kasich sound as far fetched as your belief in your belonging to the inner circle of the democratic party. Kasich could be a coke head for all I know or care. That doesn't interest me in the least as I didn't vote for the guy. If there's a puppy dog on here, it's you with your constant **********ng to draw attention to yourself. Dropping names, calling out others in insult and threateneing violence behind a computer handle is the human equivilant of little puppy's "look at me look at me, I need someone to oplay with".

[minsterman]

..and I thought we had a serious discussion going.....must be 3:15,school's out......you could've stayed in study hall and impressed some of the freshman girls with your sophomore humor.You can't DISTORT the FACTS--Giving government the right to assign YET another # or ID to people doesn't represent freedom,it represents enrollment.Just keep rolling those eyes,the priest will be over shortly to exorcise the republican demons out of you and---YAY,YE SHALL SEE THE LIGHT !!!!!!

here's something that has to be done-----a person has to be able to prove who he says he or she is to be able to VOTE, nothin high school about it......a fricken picture ID is not going to screw with somebodies rights.....

[bethere]

bethere, you stories about Kasich sound as far fetched as your belief in your belonging to the inner circle of the democratic party. Kasich could be a coke head for all I know or care. That doesn't interest me in the least as I didn't vote for the guy. If there's a puppy dog on here, it's you with your constant **********ng to draw attention to yourself. Dropping names, calling out others in insult and threateneing violence behind a computer handle is the human equivilant of little puppy's "look at me look at me, I need someone to oplay with".

IT WOULDN'T BE ANY FUN BEING THE PERSON I AM WITHOUT KNOWING THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT i EXIST. THE TRUTH IS I AM SPECIAL. EVERY ACTIVITY I HAVE EVER ATTEMPTED I HAVE EXCELLED AT. THE MORE YOU DISBELIEVE IN ME, THE MORE FUN IT IS TO ACTUALLY BE ME.

Think about it. I easily hold off the whole lot of you. I am getting some help now, but for a long while it was just me--and i was WINNING.

now it is in your best interests to hope that i am as cosmic as i portray myself. because if i am a moron?

THEN A MORON HAS BEEN KILLING THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU ALL BY HIMSELF PRETTY MUCH FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS.

as for knowing kasich? did i even imply that i was proud to know him?

go back and check. no. he's a mean person who would end programs just to see them end and to savor the pain that it would inflict on poor people. i think he is evil consider that he would take credit for a budget surplus, while on the other hand say that it never happened in the first place.

he is not an honest guy. i thought i'd share that with you.

disregard it if you want. cool!

[bethere]

Yet another days passes without an answer. Are we avoiding the question? Bethere agreed an answer was warranted, and as we all know (if you don't, he'll tell you) his word is as good as Gosple. Not to mention, he makes Rush's Right look like centerfield.

So you don't have to look back through the posts. You've stated you didn't want illegals or ineligibles voting and you'd use the military to seal the border. But you're opposed to requiring identification. My question was, if you stop the inflow, how do you keep the illegals and ineligbles that are already here, from voting if you don't require an I.D.? :)


have you been given an answer yet?

dude, if you have to use the 'm' word, no one would disrespect you for that.

word.



HAVING SAID THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF VOTING FRAUD EVEN BEING CLOSE TO REALLY BEING AN ISSUE IN THIS COUNTRY. THIS IS LIKE THE REPUBLICAN WAR ON WOMEN. BY NEXT FALL YOU'LL BOTH REGRET HAVING STOOD IN PEOPLE'S WAY TO THE VOTING BOOTH MUCH AS THE GOP MUST NOW REGRET THAT WHOLE CONTRACEPTION FIASCO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

I WAS AMAZING IN THAT CONTRACEPTION THREAD.. YOU SHOULD GO BACK AND CHECK.

[tomindayton]

here's something that has to be done-----a person has to be able to prove who he says he or she is to be able to VOTE, nothin high school about it......a fricken picture ID is not going to screw with somebodies rights.....

And herein lies the problem. Every effort to provide an ID seems to be met with astounding rejection whereby the "Yes We Can" crowd finds every way possible to proclaim "No We Can't". Then, they go on to say that the efforts to provide an ID are, in reality, a plot to stifle a person's ability to vote.

Some who reject the issuance of voter IDs claim that instances of voter fraud have not risen to the point of concern. This is like the highway commission saying a stop light is not needed because not enough people have died yet in accidents at the intersection.

In virtually every aspect of interaction among people there is a need to verify the identity of the participants. A history of dishonesty has proven the need to qualify the participants in activities in an effort to reduce instances of fraud, corruption and the commitment of crimes.

Do we need voter IDs? It seems obvious to me. Just as the junkie does not like laws that limit the ability to buy sinus medications to make meth in the back of their car, people who find a need to commit voter fraud do NOT want voter IDs.

[docthehun]

have you been given an answer yet?

dude, if you have to use the 'm' word, no one would disrespect you for that.

word.



HAVING SAID THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF VOTING FRAUD EVEN BEING CLOSE TO REALLY BEING AN ISSUE IN THIS COUNTRY. THIS IS LIKE THE REPUBLICAN WAR ON WOMEN. BY NEXT FALL YOU'LL BOTH REGRET HAVING STOOD IN PEOPLE'S WAY TO THE VOTING BOOTH MUCH AS THE GOP MUST NOW REGRET THAT WHOLE CONTRACEPTION FIASCO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

I WAS AMAZING IN THAT CONTRACEPTION THREAD.. YOU SHOULD GO BACK AND CHECK.

That would be a "no, he hasn't responded". But I'm letting him off the hook. Maybe he realized there isn't a method to prevent illegal voting without some form of identification program.

You know, I'd like to live with zero government intervention and sometimes wish a guy like Ron Paul was running the show. But in reality, we couldn't function without it. I don't mind paying taxes and I can tell you, I pay a lot. But I expect bang for the buck and I don't want the Government in competition for work that could be completed by the private sector, cheaper and more efficient. I can't stand the waste and fraud. So for my dough, I don't want anybody to have a say in how things are run, unless they're a registered, legal voter and can prove it.

[wattersoneagle]

IT WOULDN'T BE ANY FUN BEING THE PERSON I AM WITHOUT KNOWING THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT i EXIST. THE TRUTH IS I AM SPECIAL. EVERY ACTIVITY I HAVE EVER ATTEMPTED I HAVE EXCELLED AT. THE MORE YOU DISBELIEVE IN ME, THE MORE FUN IT IS TO ACTUALLY BE ME.

Think about it. I easily hold off the whole lot of you. I am getting some help now, but for a long while it was just me--and i was WINNING.

now it is in your best interests to hope that i am as cosmic as i portray myself. because if i am a moron?

THEN A MORON HAS BEEN KILLING THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU ALL BY HIMSELF PRETTY MUCH FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS.

as for knowing kasich? did i even imply that i was proud to know him?

go back and check. no. he's a mean person who would end programs just to see them end and to savor the pain that it would inflict on poor people. i think he is evil consider that he would take credit for a budget surplus, while on the other hand say that it never happened in the first place.

he is not an honest guy. i thought i'd share that with you.

disregard it if you want. cool!

I don't doubt your existence. I doubt your contacts and your acheivements. Those who accomplish great things don't generally require the ego stroke of promoting themselves - especially in a forum where verification is not possible.

[NapRover]

That would be a "no, he hasn't responded". But I'm letting him off the hook. Maybe he realized there isn't a method to prevent illegal voting without some form of identification program.

You know, I'd like to live with zero government intervention and sometimes wish a guy like Ron Paul was running the show. But in reality, we couldn't function without it. I don't mind paying taxes and I can tell you, I pay a lot. But I expect bang for the buck and I don't want the Government in competition for work that could be completed by the private sector, cheaper and more efficient. I can't stand the waste and fraud. So for my dough, I don't want anybody to have a say in how things are run, unless they're a registered, legal voter and can prove it.

STANDING OVATION

[sleeper]

You're missing the point--There IS a reason poll taxes or ANY exchange of monetary value is held seperate from the right to vote-It INSURES that votes are not cast under duress.To breach that point would be entirely Un-American.In actuallity,the spirit of this law should float all the way UP to Congress.Money should have little or no effect on matters of the public.Congressmen are human too-they've dropped their cross more than a few times,yielding to padded pockets over the best interest of the public.

Then what is your solution to stop voter fraud? I'm genuinely curious.

[NapRover]

From what I've seen, liberals reject the idea that any voter fraud is possible, therefore any attempt to prove or eliminate it is racism.

[wattersoneagle]

[I]
dozens of new laws were enacted since the 2008 election to do just that.
[/U]

That's not an answer for to the question of what is being done to prevent voting.

If you are a legal resident in this country, there is NOTHING to prevent you from voting. That is such a load of baloney. People can chose to vote or not vote. But this constantly promoted conspiracy that there is awhole segment of the population that is prevented is ridiculous.

I sometimes think people that espouse this nonsense would have been happier in Nazi Germany circa 1935. At least there, there would have been actual legal supression to fight against. Instead, they're unfortunately stuck in the USA circa 2012 where they have to constantly reach to create fictitious realities that have no grounding in truth - thereby giving something to fight against.

[tomindayton]

From what I've seen, liberals reject the idea that any voter fraud is possible, therefore any attempt to prove or eliminate it is racism.

SMH. You are not "seeing it all".

It is RACIST if you claim that liberals reject the idea that voter fraud is possible.

...and of course attempting to prove or eliminate voter fraud is racist!

DUH!

Get with the program, NapRover.

:p

[jimmacqueen]

Then what is your solution to stop voter fraud? I'm genuinely curious.

The problem with stopping any sort of voter fraud, if it really is a problem, is that ANY action that prevents a qualified voter from voting is much worse than any action that allows someone not qualified to vote. You cannot disenfranchise the huge number of qualified people that would be prevented from voting just to stop very small number of cheats.

[o.a.b.]

Yet another days passes without an answer. Are we avoiding the question? Bethere agreed an answer was warranted, and as we all know (if you don't, he'll tell you) his word is as good as Gosple. Not to mention, he makes Rush's Right look like centerfield.

So you don't have to look back through the posts. You've stated you didn't want illegals or ineligibles voting and you'd use the military to seal the border. But you're opposed to requiring identification. My question was, if you stop the inflow, how do you keep the illegals and ineligbles that are already here, from voting if you don't require an I.D.? :)

Move em all to George Bush's ranch.Since HE started the inflow,let HIM deal with the problem.In your opinion [ disregarding technicalities and legalities ] which of the 2 should vote ? a] 3rd generation welfare mama,owns no property,8 kids suckin' the govenment titty,and a cokehead or b] A self-employed Mexican providing work for 5 others,paying taxes,owns his home. I know what the law SAYS but eventually [ because of the influence of money in our government ] sympathisers,including congressional members writing law WILL side with b over a---they kill 2 birds with one stone.

[bethere]

The problem with stopping any sort of voter fraud, if it really is a problem, is that ANY action that prevents a qualified voter from voting is much worse than any action that allows someone not qualified to vote. You cannot disenfranchise the huge number of qualified people that would be prevented from voting just to stop very small number of cheats.

they have to change the math to win... and to do this they will stand between as many historically democratic voting blocks and their constitutional right to vote their conscience as they possible can.

[docthehun]

they have to change the math to win... and to do this they will stand between as many historically democratic voting blocks and their constitutional right to vote their conscience as they possible can.

Take a look at the post which preceded yours. That's the best he can do to answer my question? Get your team up to speed and tell them to answer the damn questions. Good thing you're leading the pack because it appears to me it gets pretty thin after you.

[bethere]

Take a look at the post which preceded yours. That's the best he can do to answer my question? Get your team up to speed and tell them to answer the damn questions. Good thing you're leading the pack because it appears to me it gets pretty thin after you.

WELL, YEAH, BUT I'D TAKE JIMMY MAC OVER ANY TEN CEROS, HOMERS, FISH, TOM THE IMPOTENT MODERATOR, ETC. HE IS A SMART MAN WHO OCCASIONALLY SPEAKS OUTSIDE HIS BEST FRAME OF REFERENCE.

BUT HE ISN'T ALWAYS SPEAKING OUTSIDE OF THAT FRAME. SO I MUST DISAGREE. OUR ROSTER HAS A FALLOFF IN TALENT BUT WE HAVE PLENTY OF PEOPLE ON OUR BENCH TO PROVIDE TEAM BETHERE WITH A VERY VERY DEEP ROTATION OF COLLEGE EDUCATED AND LIFE INFORMED SUPER POSTERS.

I AM REAL HAPPY WITH JIMMY MAC. HE CAN BE ON MY TEAM ANYTIME. I BELIEVE THAT I HAVE INSPIRED MANY OF THEM TO SPEAK OUT ALREADY, THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAV SOMEONE LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BACK, AND THAT THEY WON'T GET PUMMELED BY TOM THE IMPOTENT MODERATOR WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS FLACK BEING DISHED OUT IN RETURN.

I BELIEVE IN YOU, I BELIEVE THAT YU CAN BE EMBOLDENED. I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN BE INSPIRED TO DO RIGHT. I THINK YOU CAN NOT ONLY CHANGE BUT I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE CHANGING--YOU NEED TO BECOME A DEMOCRAT. THAT'S WHAT ALL OF THE COOL AND ALL OF THE SMART KIDS ARE DOING.

[docthehun]

WELL, YEAH, BUT I'D TAKE JIMMY MAC OVER ANY TEN CEROS, HOMERS, FISH, TOM THE IMPOTENT MODERATOR, ETC. HE IS A SMART MAN WHO OCCASIONALLY SPEAKS OUTSIDE HIS BEST FRAME OF REFERENCE.

BUT HE ISN'T ALWAYS SPEAKING OUTSIDE OF THAT FRAME. SO I MUST DISAGREE. OUR ROSTER HAS A FALLOFF IN TALENT BUT WE HAVE PLENTY OF PEOPLE ON OUR BENCH TO PROVIDE TEAM BETHERE WITH A VERY VERY DEEP ROTATION OF COLLEGE EDUCATED AND LIFE INFORMED SUPER POSTERS.

I AM REAL HAPPY WITH JIMMY MAC. HE CAN BE ON MY TEAM ANYTIME. I BELIEVE THAT I HAVE INSPIRED MANY OF THEM TO SPEAK OUT ALREADY, THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAV SOMEONE LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BACK, AND THAT THEY WON'T GET PUMMELED BY TOM THE IMPOTENT MODERATOR WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS FLACK BEING DISHED OUT IN RETURN.



I BELIEVE IN YOU, I BELIEVE THAT YU CAN BE EMBOLDENED. I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN BE INSPIRED TO DO RIGHT. I THINK YOU CAN NOT ONLY CHANGE BUT I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE CHANGING--YOU NEED TO BECOME A DEMOCRAT. THAT'S WHAT ALL OF THE COOL AND ALL OF THE SMART KIDS ARE DOING.

Well thanks for the invite, but I respectfully decline and it's not because I'm a lifetime registered Republican. In both politics and life, I'm pretty comfortable as a loner. It gives me a lot of freedom to tell it (right or wrong) like I see it. I used to be a regular at city commission meetings and express my thoughts. They're televised so I'm long ago over the camera jitters. I'm just as honest with my elders in Washington, who, more often than not, get an earful from me. I've stood up for your guy on numerous occasions, which they hate. So they need me a lot more than you do, lest Rush truly becomes the voice of the party. He thinks he's big cheese, but he just does our dirty work. You've got guys on your side like that as well. My job is to keep us pulled to the center and that roll suits me fine.

[JJ]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/22/voter-id-laws-obama_n_1442338.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D154113

[NapRover]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/22/voter-id-laws-obama_n_1442338.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D154113

To me, this is proof that BHO and most dems in close races, rely heavily on voter fraud as their ace up their sleeve.

[NapRover]

SMH. You are not "seeing it all".

It is RACIST if you claim that liberals reject the idea that voter fraud is possible.

...and of course attempting to prove or eliminate voter fraud is racist!

DUH!

Get with the program, NapRover.

:p

LOL-then I probably should change my handle to ArchieBunker!

[o.a.b.]

To me, this is proof that BHO and most dems in close races, rely heavily on voter fraud as their ace up their sleeve.

To me it seems that everytime there's a close race,republicans opt for the sour grapes avenue.Why don't democrats accuse republicans of voter fraud ? Oh,that's right---they're "more" honest !! [ they just re-district to justify their means ] More conservative elitist BS.I like the report that came out today proving that southern states are degenerating back to debtor prison [ that was the whole purpose of Georgia being established as a colony ] Once debtors are thrown in jail , the public has 2 options : a] pay for them b] charge them and get blood out of a turnip.Sound solutions from the moral majority.They'd rather cozy up to Faux News with a cop at their front door than to actually try to solve problems.Solving problems means you'll be scrutinized.Y'all must be former Tareyton smokers.

[dorciepatrick]

Voter fraud is not rampant at all -- as far as the presidential race is concerned. However, there have been several cases in various parts of the country, involving members of BOTH parties.
In fact, the highest ranking official who has been convicted has been the Indiana Secretary of State -- a Republican.http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/23/white-faces-sentencing-after-6-felony-convictions/

[NapRover]

To me it seems that everytime there's a close race,republicans opt for the sour grapes avenue.Why don't democrats accuse republicans of voter fraud ? Oh,that's right---they're "more" honest !! [ they just re-district to justify their means ] More conservative elitist BS.I like the report that came out today proving that southern states are degenerating back to debtor prison [ that was the whole purpose of Georgia being established as a colony ] Once debtors are thrown in jail , the public has 2 options : a] pay for them b] charge them and get blood out of a turnip.Sound solutions from the moral majority.They'd rather cozy up to Faux News with a cop at their front door than to actually try to solve problems.Solving problems means you'll be scrutinized.Y'all must be former Tareyton smokers.

It does tend to make one sour when it is revealed that voter fraud was involved.
I could cozy up with Rachel Maddow if she'd join me in passing out voter id's.

[o.a.b.]

Voter fraud is not rampant at all -- as far as the presidential race is concerned. However, there have been several cases in various parts of the country, involving members of BOTH parties.
In fact, the highest ranking official who has been convicted has been the Indiana Secretary of State -- a Republican.http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/23/white-faces-sentencing-after-6-felony-convictions/

Voter fraud is indeed much ado about nothing.It has become the focus ever since REPUBLICAN GWB ignored federal immigration laws.We didn't start the fire....We need to keep illegals out,we need more right to work states and less unions,we need debtor prison.....yes sir,whatever you say boss man sir.The only social issues that Republicans get themselves involved with are the ones with economic concerns tied to them....and why minorities have built a disdain for their philosophy.It's well within their power to change but they won't.It's not what they were but what they are.....yet they're the ones to make the statement " The democratic party that your mom and dad voted for is not the same party you're voting for " Unjustified self-rightousness at its finest !

[NapRover]

The law says we must be citizens to vote. If we're going to let 10% of our population come and stray here illegally, we should take measures to see that they don't vote. Proof is needed. Why anybody would oppose that is simply beyond me.

Bush, Bush, Bush!

[DGUtley]

I don't get it either, Nap. Not at all. There are so many many things you need an ID for in this country, it befuddles me to understand whey people are opposed to this.

[docthehun]

I don't get it either, Nap. Not at all. There are so many many things you need an ID for in this country, it befuddles me to understand whey people are opposed to this.

Even O.A.B. stated he didn't want "illegal or ineligible" people to vote, but still seemed opposed to the notion of an I.D. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to accomplish one without the other. I'm fairly certain that Bethere mostly agreed. Once again, politics gets in the way of common sense.

[NapRover]

Even O.A.B. stated he didn't want "illegal or ineligible" people to vote, but still seemed opposed to the notion of an I.D. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to accomplish one without the other. I'm fairly certain that Bethere mostly agreed. Once again, politics gets in the way of common sense.

I think you nailed it, Doc. We want it, so they oppose it. Circle the bases please for you have knocked it out of the park once again.

[BGFalcons82]

Looks like there's some smoke. I wonder if there's a fire?

http://www.speroforum.com/a/JHJAYHFXYL12/71410-Did-Democrats-hack-the-2008-Obama-election

The take-home:
According to emails obtained by WikiLeaks, which is led by the embattled Julian Assange, Republican Senator John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign staff allegedly had evidence that Democrats stuffed ballot boxes in Pennsylvania and Ohio on election night. However, the candidate chose not to pursue voter fraud, according to internal emails obtained from the private intelligence and analysis firm, Stratfor.

[sleeper]

I will never understand why asking for a simple ID for each vote is such an unreasonable request. If you can't afford it, then there should be(and I think there is) a system to get a free one or one at a reduced cost.

Simple as that. One ID, one vote.

[DGUtley]

Mind boggling.

[jimmacqueen]

To me, this is proof that BHO and most dems in close races, rely heavily on voter fraud as their ace up their sleeve.

Because you equate ALL voter registration drives or actions as fraud? To me, that just means you have joined the ranks of the conservatives who know they can't win if all ELIGIBLE voters turn out on election day.

As far as I'm concerned, if even ONE eligible voter is disenfranchised by any means, that is a violation of the intent of the Constitution, and is far worse than any case where an ineligible voter casts a ballot. To safely protect the voting rights of every eligible American citizen, we MUST err on the side of letting everyone vote.

[jimmacqueen]

Voter fraud is not rampant at all -- as far as the presidential race is concerned. However, there have been several cases in various parts of the country, involving members of BOTH parties.
In fact, the highest ranking official who has been convicted has been the Indiana Secretary of State -- a Republican.http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/23/white-faces-sentencing-after-6-felony-convictions/

That depends on how you define "voter fraud". President Richard Nixon, who would have been impeached had he not resigned, would have been convicted at an impeachment trial. Was Watergate a form of voter fraud? Or just an illegal breakin into the Democratic headquarters?

[jimmacqueen]

I don't get it either, Nap. Not at all. There are so many many things you need an ID for in this country, it befuddles me to understand whey people are opposed to this.

Easy for you to say with a car and cash at your disposal. People without cars, cash, and in need of child care, have a much harder time doing many things that you take for granted. Address these issues, and we'll talk about IDs.

[jimmacqueen]

Looks like there's some smoke. I wonder if there's a fire?

http://www.speroforum.com/a/JHJAYHFXYL12/71410-Did-Democrats-hack-the-2008-Obama-election

The take-home:

Hummm...and did someone mention Jeb Bush's Florida? Just sayin...

[DGUtley]

Easy for you to say with a car and cash at your disposal. People without cars, cash, and in need of child care, have a much harder time doing many things that you take for granted. Address these issues, and we'll talk about IDs.
I'm sorry, it was my understanding that you needed an ID to get medicare, to get SNAPS, to pick up a library book and to do so many things that normal (even poor) people do every day. Explain to me, again, how using an ID for those things is easier than using an ID to vote? Thank you so much.

[jimmacqueen]

Because the government provides TRANSPORTATION to the service providers when they make first contact with case workers.

Now, if you are willing to organize neighborhood transportation and child care provided by local government, and/or bring voter ID card providers into the neighborhoods to offer equal opportunity (in other words, set up the system to vet and provide the IDs at the polling places well in advance of the election) then we can talk.

[DGUtley]

Because the government provides TRANSPORTATION to the service providers when they make first contact with case workers. Now, if you are willing to organize neighborhood transportation and child care provided by local government, and/or bring voter ID card providers into the neighborhoods to offer equal opportunity (in other words, set up the system to vet and provide the IDs at the polling places well in advance of the election) then we can talk.
Aaaaah, yes, I see now. Thank you. I get it now. The ID that one would use for their SNAPS card you would object to them using it to vote. Moreover, it's ok if they get themselves to the polling station WITHOUT an ID; but with an ID, you want them to be driven?

SUMMATION:

1. People have ID's for services.
2. People go vote all by themselves.
3. Liberals object to people showing their own ID's to vote.
4. Liberals object to people transporting themselves to vote with ID.
5. Liberals are ok with people transporting themselves to vote without an ID.

Did I get that right?

[NapRover]

Because you equate ALL voter registration drives or actions as fraud? To me, that just means you have joined the ranks of the conservatives who know they can't win if all ELIGIBLE voters turn out on election day.

As far as I'm concerned, if even ONE eligible voter is disenfranchised by any means, that is a violation of the intent of the Constitution, and is far worse than any case where an ineligible voter casts a ballot. To safely protect the voting rights of every eligible American citizen, we MUST err on the side of letting everyone vote.

So when the dems sought to toss out the votes from the military in 2000, you were on W's side? Somehow I can't see that.
Acorn-that radical group BHO worked for-along with the SEIU--are ripe with fraud. I welcome registration drives-make them legit please!

[tomindayton]

Easy for you to say with a car and cash at your disposal. People without cars, cash, and in need of child care, have a much harder time doing many things that you take for granted. Address these issues, and we'll talk about IDs.

I would contend that there needs to be a level of personal responsibility on anyone who is eligible and wants to vote to take the steps needed to be able to vote. This personal responsibility would be being able to provide proof of their identification while also making arrangements to get to the polling place or submit their absentee vote.

Stating that people don't have cars, cash, daycare etc. and have a harder time doing things are, IMO, just excuses. They need to take advantage of the many available opportunities available to them in order to cast their vote. If they are dedicated to being able to vote, if they want it bad enough and it is important to them to vote, they will do what it takes to vote.

With that said, I would suggest that IDs be provided free of charge at the BMV and at the polling place. If IDs are made at the polling place, their vote would be "provisional" for that election until the info provided can be verified.

[NapRover]

Aaaaah, yes, I see now. Thank you. I get it now. The ID that one would use for their SNAPS card you would object to them using it to vote. Moreover, it's ok if they get themselves to the polling station WITHOUT an ID; but with an ID, you want them to be driven?


SUMMATION:

1. People have ID's for services.
2. People go vote all by themselves.
3. Liberals object to people showing their own ID's to vote.
4. Liberals object to people transporting themselves to vote with ID.
5. Liberals are ok with people transporting themselves to vote without an ID.

Did I get that right?

Like I said before, whatever we want they're opposed, no matter what. The party of no way!

[BGFalcons82]

As far as I'm concerned, if even ONE eligible voter is disenfranchised by any means, that is a violation of the intent of the Constitution, and is far worse than any case where an ineligible voter casts a ballot. To safely protect the voting rights of every eligible American citizen, we MUST err on the side of letting everyone vote.
Hhmmm...I've read this post several times and I'm unsure of what you're writing.

The first part is pretty clear: You are 100% behind one person = one vote. You state it would be a Constitutional violation. Then it gets murky (and I'll paraphrase): You equivocate that an ineligible voter casting a ballot is far worse than one eligible voter being disenfranchised. Then your last sentence says you are perfectly fine having everyone vote, which brings back the entire pool of voters whom may be ineligible.

Here's what I'm taking from your post: Much like Blackstone's Formulation ("better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"), are you saying it is better that 10 ineligible voters have the right than one eligible voter suffer?

[NBHS_1988]

BGFalcons82, I think you hit that nail on the head.

Macqueen would have folks going around the state and country, with a phoney name voting, like Benny Hill, with out any proof. Sounds like an Acorn person to me. Opps! That is what Acorn did through out the state of Ohio in 2008.

[TSG]

Hummm...and did someone mention Jeb Bush's Florida? Just sayin...

. . . or Al Franken. . . just sayin. . .

[tomindayton]

Mind boggling.

If only Americans had the same opinion about voting and doing whatever it takes to vote.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vH5f59Og-Sc/SYiKwBWUNKI/AAAAAAAAF4M/cTXJ8cj1B0Q/s400/2009-01-31.jpeg

[docthehun]

Isn't that the truth!

[o.a.b.]

Hey,in the great world of compromise-How about this : I'll accept another useless,needless voter ID # as soon as the conservative right gives up the power to re-district.The fact is and will always be : An assigned # to you by government will be given undue authority in another aspect.I can see it now----HB # 2022--introduced by Joe " Bottom Dollar " Schmuck [ R-Ohio ] Anyone with a voter ID # assigned after ---blah blah date---will get an additional 5 % cut to his SSI benefits.This 5 % "savings" [ actually a poll tax ] will be used to fund his AARP benefits.An assignment of a voter ID # will most assuredly be governments way around a poll tax----make NO mistake about it.

[tomindayton]

oab... no one is saying a national ID card and most assuredly not talking about the people giving the government the ability to use voter ID info for taxation or any other purposes.

I totally agree that the government has a history of changing previously agreed-upon issues in ways not intended when adopted.

Showing my driver's license or some other person showing a state ID card to obtain a ballot is not a national ID registration. It merely proves who a person is and their eligibility to vote.

Keep ID registration as a state responsibility. If a state government abuses the system, citizens are free to move to a state that doesn't.

[DGUtley]

Hey,in the great world of compromise-How about this : I'll accept another useless,needless voter ID # as soon as the conservative right gives up the power to re-district.The fact is and will always be : An assigned # to you by government will be given undue authority in another aspect.I can see it now----HB # 2022--introduced by Joe " Bottom Dollar " Schmuck [ R-Ohio ] Anyone with a voter ID # assigned after ---blah blah date---will get an additional 5 % cut to his SSI benefits.This 5 % "savings" [ actually a poll tax ] will be used to fund his AARP benefits.An assignment of a voter ID # will most assuredly be governments way around a poll tax----make NO mistake about it.
Poll tax? Really?

[19AL63]

I watched part of a show on voter fraud this morning on Fox. It showed that many local elections can and have had outcomes changed by voter fraud. I don't understand how and why some states are being blocked and other have ID requirements without any problems. In Ohio you have register to be able to vote. I glad I have to prove with a photo ID who I am to be able to vote. All of my credit cards are signed "Photo ID required" this make me prove who I am to use the card. Helps stop fraud of my credit cards too. Do you want someone else voting for you , using your name and your vote?

[jimmacqueen]

Hhmmm...I've read this post several times and I'm unsure of what you're writing.

The first part is pretty clear: You are 100% behind one person = one vote. You state it would be a Constitutional violation. Then it gets murky (and I'll paraphrase): You equivocate that an ineligible voter casting a ballot is far worse than one eligible voter being disenfranchised. Then your last sentence says you are perfectly fine having everyone vote, which brings back the entire pool of voters whom may be ineligible.

Here's what I'm taking from your post: Much like Blackstone's Formulation ("better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"), are you saying it is better that 10 ineligible voters have the right than one eligible voter suffer?

Correct. If we are going to make a mistake, it is better that ineligible voters vote than that any eligible voter be turned away by "process".

And your implication is equally correct: I am opposed to capital punishment because of the high risk that just one innocent person might be executed.

[jimmacqueen]

BGFalcons82, I think you hit that nail on the head.

Macqueen would have folks going around the state and country, with a phoney name voting, like Benny Hill, with out any proof. Sounds like an Acorn person to me. Opps! That is what Acorn did through out the state of Ohio in 2008.

Not true, on either count. Don't put words into my posts.

[jimmacqueen]

oab... no one is saying a national ID card and most assuredly not talking about the people giving the government the ability to use voter ID info for taxation or any other purposes.

I totally agree that the government has a history of changing previously agreed-upon issues in ways not intended when adopted.

Showing my driver's license or some other person showing a state ID card to obtain a ballot is not a national ID registration. It merely proves who a person is and their eligibility to vote.

Keep ID registration as a state responsibility. If a state government abuses the system, citizens are free to move to a state that doesn't.

You know, Tom...the real fallacy in this argument is that somehow IDs prevent fraud. The truth is, THEY DON'T. Anyone intent on committing fraud can easily obtain counterfeit IDs, and they do it all the time for ID theft. Any national organization truly interested in stuffing the ballot box won't have any trouble overcoming an ID law, anywhere in the nation. So not only is it a poll tax, racist, and unconstitutional...it's a BIG waste of time and tax money!

[BGFalcons82]

Correct. If we are going to make a mistake, it is better that ineligible voters vote than that any eligible voter be turned away by "process".
OK. Now for the follow-up question:

If ineligible voters show up and vote, doesn't that diminish the value of the eligible ones? In other words, aren't people that get registered legally, follow the rules, and show up just once disenfranchised by the ones who are ineligible or show up to vote as Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck as many times as they like?

[tomindayton]

You know, Tom...the real fallacy in this argument is that somehow IDs prevent fraud. The truth is, THEY DON'T. Anyone intent on committing fraud can easily obtain counterfeit IDs, and they do it all the time for ID theft. Any national organization truly interested in stuffing the ballot box won't have any trouble overcoming an ID law, anywhere in the nation. So not only is it a poll tax, racist, and unconstitutional...it's a BIG waste of time and tax money!

And the big fallacy with your argument is that somehow laws do not prevent crime. Anyone intent on committing a crime will do it, so why have any laws at all? This argument sounds as though you are proposing anarchy!

The ID is not a poll tax given that they can be obtained for FREE. It is not racist since it would be a requirement for EVERYONE (a group of people made up of all races!). And though I don't know of any particular case, given that IDs are required for so many things in our society, precedent has been established that IDs for voting are not unconstitutional.

[jimmacqueen]

OK. Now for the follow-up question:

If ineligible voters show up and vote, doesn't that diminish the value of the eligible ones? In other words, aren't people that get registered legally, follow the rules, and show up just once disenfranchised by the ones who are ineligible or show up to vote as Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck as many times as they like?

In a word, no.

But to expand, only those who should have been permitted but who are disenfranchised by an ID law.

[wisdome]

You know, Tom...the real fallacy in this argument is that somehow IDs prevent fraud. The truth is, THEY DON'T. Anyone intent on committing fraud can easily obtain counterfeit IDs, and they do it all the time for ID theft. Any national organization truly interested in stuffing the ballot box won't have any trouble overcoming an ID law, anywhere in the nation. So not only is it a poll tax, racist, and unconstitutional...it's a BIG waste of time and tax money!

So if that is your thought let ANYBODY that shows up to a voting booth vote! Anybody that wants a drivers license give it to them with no need of proof. Anybody that wants to come into this country let them in with no proof of US citenship. So how much more do you want? Isn't all the above also a waist of tax $$$$$????