Morral Ridgedale leaves the Mid-Ohio Athletic Conference (MOAC)

[wood duck]

Has been rumored since the announcement of the MOAC expansion.

www.marionstar.com/article/20111201/NEWS01/111201007

[grub]

See above post about the Northern 10.

[Bevo]

Who was the family - dad and sons, uncles, cousins - that were such good players there? Westons? I believe the Rockets got to state one year. Seems like one of the Westons played for either Fred Taylor near the end of Fred's career or for Eldon Miller.

Still remember a classic photo in the Marion Star of I believe Brad Weston nailing a long shot to win a tournament game. I think Brad went on and played at Stetson for the Hatters. (Grub - is that right?)

Of course, Greg Nossman and former Ohio University star, John Schroeder, both coached there.

One of the things that was always curious about the 'dale was that they were somehow below an imaginary line that precluded them playing schools north of them. I realize the old, old NCC had many schools "above" them but for years and years, the Rockets went south for athletics. They also must have been below the cutoff line for small school tournament action north because they always headed south. I remember their girls playing in the regionals down around Dayton and their districts were always in Columbus.

[Royally nuts]

There are plenty a ruffled feathers in around Crawford and Wyandot counties over all this. It makes sense too me. But I don't think it was maybe gone about exactly the right way. And there are a few that get left out in the cold. Never good.

[grub]

Who was the family - dad and sons, uncles, cousins - that were such good players there? Westons? I believe the Rockets got to state one year. Seems like one of the Westons played for either Fred Taylor near the end of Fred's career or for Eldon Miller.

Still remember a classic photo in the Marion Star of I believe Brad Weston nailing a long shot to win a tournament game. I think Brad went on and played at Stetson for the Hatters. (Grub - is that right?)

Of course, Greg Nossman and former Ohio University star, John Schroeder, both coached there.

One of the things that was always curious about the 'dale was that they were somehow below an imaginary line that precluded them playing schools north of them. I realize the old, old NCC had many schools "above" them but for years and years, the Rockets went south for athletics. They also must have been below the cutoff line for small school tournament action north because they always headed south. I remember their girls playing in the regionals down around Dayton and their districts were always in Columbus.

You are correct. Brad as well as brother Randy played there, in fact Randy's son J.R. also plays there. Small world that a girl from Upper and a boy from Ridgedale playing ball at the same school in Fla. at the same time. Actually had a nice Ohio crowd with both families in attendance at I believe was Eastern Tennessee when the men and womens team played a double header.
Brother Dan went to Ohio State.

[Hank_Hill]

There are plenty a ruffled feathers in around Crawford and Wyandot counties over all this. It makes sense too me. But I don't think it was maybe gone about exactly the right way. And there are a few that get left out in the cold. Never good.

Ruffled feathers is an understatement of monsterous proportions.

[medium123]

You are correct. Brad as well as brother Randy played there, in fact Randy's son J.R. also plays there. Small world that a girl from Upper and a boy from Ridgedale playing ball at the same school in Fla. at the same time. Actually had a nice Ohio crowd with both families in attendance at I believe was Eastern Tennessee when the men and womens team played a double header.
Brother Dan went to Ohio State.

The Weston bunch will be heading over to Indiana for Sunday's Stetson game against IU. Count was 35 or so from Rocket country going over to watch J.R. play. We are all very proud of our J.R.!!!

[Press Box]

Ruffled feathers nothing, it's more like pi$$ed off! You tell people one thing, then blow up the conference after only three months!!

[meercat_manor]

Will Ridgedale move to the Northwest district then?

[Royally nuts]

Ruffled feathers nothing, it's more like pi$$ed off! You tell people one thing, then blow up the conference after only three months!!

Yep and as a Royals fan, I have to say I don't blame a soul for being good and pi$$ed if your on the outside looking in! I believe they have every right to be. Good thing long run for many, horrible thing for some, not done the right way at all. As much as I will say on it.

Truth is this is not good for D-5 schools in the new league, not in football. There is a serious risk of going 9-1 and not making it.

Its all money distance and was done not so good from all I gather.

I do understand wanting the results, but the ends don't always justify the means. ok?

[mikesteel]

What they did to Galion, Upper and Lucas was deplorable!!!

[integrity]

Galion, Ontario and Upper will be fi-i-ine.
They'll end up in a more balanced and competitive 8-team conference than what the current 10-team NCC is. I KNOW that to be true. :)

I feel for Lucas. I really don't know where the Cubs can go.

[MPD]

I was going to say... :D

I can think of some soon to be happy schools but I would NOT want to be an AD in Morrow or Knox County in 2 years. :eek: Talk about crapping in your own mess kit. ;)

[BigTenBuckeye]

I mentioned it on another thread, but I've heard that Loudonville and Lucas may reach out to the Firelands Conference to be the 9th and 10th members, proposing North and South Divisions to accomodate for travel. This would likely have Loudonville and Lucas in a division with Crestview, Mapleton, and Plymouth, which would pit the 5 Huron County schools in the other division. The FC may not want to go beyond 8 members, but at least that proposal would make sense in more than one way and help out 2 schools being left on the outside.

[LadyKnights]

I think the MOAC is on its last leg unfortunately. There was to much disparity in the league as well as travel for some schools, then add Fairbanks, Alder, Centerburg, Fredericktown then leave Highland over on the small school side was the final nail in the coffin.

[paladin]

I was going to say... :D

I can think of some soon to be happy schools but I would NOT want to be an AD in Morrow or Knox County in 2 years. :eek: Talk about crapping in your own mess kit. ;)

I can't figure out Highland in this MOAC mess. What do they have on the other schools? They say they wanted schools closer geographically, when in reality it looks like they want to play smaller schools. Why were they able to push around the other schools. I do remember they REALLY didn't like it when Ontario was in the MOC.

[paladin]

How much soul searching did Ridgedale have to do to walk away from Pleasant, Elgin and River Valley? How long has it been that all four Marion County schools have been in the same league?

[LadyKnights]

From what I have heard Highlands AD has been pushing a Morrow/Knox league for some time. Sounds good logistically, but this league benefits really only one school...Problem I see is a team could go 10-0 in football in that league and not make the playoffs...I guess its good if league championships mean more to you then playoff appearances.

[j sikma]

The Highland AD is also the coach of the boys basketball team this year which is going to be really bad. Will some of the other league coaches make a point to him and others about the actions which were taken and why Highland wanted this new league? This will most likely be the last year (or two) BV, Pleasant, RV, NU, and others play Highland. Will teams send Highland a not so nice message and going away "gift"?

[MPD]

The Highland AD is also the coach of the boys basketball team this year which is going to be really bad. Will some of the other league coaches make a point to him and others about the actions which were taken and why Highland wanted this new league? This will most likely be the last year (or two) BV, Pleasant, RV, NU, and others play Highland. Will teams send Highland a not so nice message and going away "gift"?

No doubt, J.

JA probably can't wait for a shot at joining the OCC. I think the one's left out of the N10 creation will join up with the MOAC non Morrow Co. teams and send Mr. Hoying a message. ;)

[BigBoss]

I already posted this in another thread but I wanted to add it here

This is what I have heard about the MOAC and the adding of schools, Highland wanted the league to shift towards Knox county by adding Centerburg and Fredricktown so Fairbanks and JA were added to balance it east/west location of schools. Elgin, Ridgedale, and Northmor were upset about the adding of JA so all three schools have been rumored to leave the MOAC with Ridgedale already announcing they will be changing leagues. This caused Highland to want to replace the three schools with the rest of the Knox county small schools. The last I have heard is the 4 Knox County Schools (East Knox, Danville, Centerburg, Fredricktown) and the 4 Morrow County Schools (Northmor, Mt. Gilead, Cardington, Highland) and joining up to make an 8 team league. This leaves the rest of the MOAC out to dry (Pleasant, RV, North Union, Buckeye Valley). I have heard the Knox Morrow County League is almost a lock for the 2013-12014 school year. As for the rest of the MOAC schools make a 8 or 9 team league so you can get 2 or 3 non conference games. This will help those schools get to the playoffs. I would try and get these 8 or 9 teams all in one league:
Pleasant, River Valley, North Union, Buckeye Valley, Galion, Upper Sandusky, Ontario, Fairbanks, (Elgin if they are okay with this format)
This would be a solid 9 team league and all fairly close together

As for the district alignment, the MOAC was created for the marion county schools to get more recognition at the All District level. When these schools were in the NCC they were playing schools affiliated with the Northwest District and couldnt get guys all district. Its like cornerring the market you get a bunch of teams from one league pooling votes together to get league players recognized at the All District level. The Marion County Schools were never in the Northwest District. I dont think the Marion County Schools need to change to the Northwest District, just play some non league contests agains the Knox Morrow County league or central district teams, so deserving players can get the recognition they deserve.

Sorry for the book I just wanted to make my thoughts known

[paladin]

Fairbanks does not fit. Elgin makes sense geographically. Where else would they go? Clear Fork is a possibility instead of Buckeye Valley

[MPD]

Sorry Fairbanks. Elgin for sure.

[integrity]

Yep

[BigBoss]

You guys tell me where Elgin is going, the only reason I didnt include them is they are trying to get out of the MOAC so maybe they are looking or have found a new conference to play in. I believe they would be a great fit in this proposed league. You guys are right Fairbanks just doesnt fit really well. You need 9 teams tho, It is going to be hard to find 3 non conference games. So I think it would be wise to add a 9th team. Who else could be considered?

[integrity]

The new league will consist of 8 teams.
I have been told by TWO VERY RELIABLE sources that's what EVERYBODY who is interested in forming it wants.
Finding 3 non-conference games is NOT a big deal.
Those games would be in weeks 1-3, and some of the teams have had their schedules set up that way MANY years.
As things stand now ... play won't begin until the football season of 2014. That's 3 years down the road.
PLENTY of time to get schedules sorted out.

[j sikma]

So its Pleasant elgin river valley north union buckeye valley ontario galion and upper sandusky to the "new NCC"? Moac will become an 8 team knox and morrow co league? Fairbanks and j alder are looking for a league?

[Ericles]

Generally, that is true. However, my school (you know which one) just had its Week2 and Week 3 football contracts broken because of the formation of this new league. Many of our potential non-league opponents will be a part of the N 10 , so it'll be interesting to see what becomes of those Week 2 & Week 3 games.

[USA70PP]

Posted this, in part, on another thread. Something to think about for a week1-3 game in the new league.
One game I have thought about a lot would be Pleasant and Youngstown Ursuline. Hear me out on this one. Ursuline always has trouble filling their schedule and have to travel all over for games. If they stay Div V then you get an idea of what awaits you down the tournament trail. You may get smoked, but you get an idea of how well your team could do and where they stand. A little like the game with Mooney in '07. It lets you know what you have to do to succeed." Thoughts??

[MPD]

No way we would drive that far when there's plenty of competition closer. Jonathan Alder, another MAC school than St. Henry.... :D

[USA70PP]

Well, have them come here every year. They need games, they might be willing to make the trip every year.

[paladin]

You guys tell me where Elgin is going, the only reason I didnt include them is they are trying to get out of the MOAC so maybe they are looking or have found a new conference to play in. I believe they would be a great fit in this proposed league. You guys are right Fairbanks just doesnt fit really well. You need 9 teams tho, It is going to be hard to find 3 non conference games. So I think it would be wise to add a 9th team. Who else could be considered?

A 9 team league????? Surely you're joking. A HUGE problem in football. You do realize that in a 9 school league OOC games have to be found in weeks 3 thru 10. Every school has a "bye" in one of the weeks 3 thru 10. A HUGE PROBLEM in weeks 4 thru 10. Finding games in weeks 1 thru 3 is child's play in comparison.

[paladin]

Generally, that is true. However, my school (you know which one) just had its Week2 and Week 3 football contracts broken because of the formation of this new league. Many of our potential non-league opponents will be a part of the N 10 , so it'll be interesting to see what becomes of those Week 2 & Week 3 games.

MOAC schools in the new NCC will be looking for non-league games.

[paladin]

No doubt, J.

JA probably can't wait for a shot at joining the OCC. I think the one's left out of the N10 creation will join up with the MOAC non Morrow Co. teams and send Mr. Hoying a message. ;)

Doesn't Hoying get what he's really been looking for? To be 50% bigger than the other schools in his league. Highland 234, East Knox with 165 is next largest. Loudonville with 150 makes more sense with the other schools than Highland does.

[Captain Tony]

Posted this, in part, on another thread. Something to think about for a week1-3 game in the new league.
One game I have thought about a lot would be Pleasant and Youngstown Ursuline. Hear me out on this one. Ursuline always has trouble filling their schedule and have to travel all over for games. If they stay Div V then you get an idea of what awaits you down the tournament trail. You may get smoked, but you get an idea of how well your team could do and where they stand. A little like the game with Mooney in '07. It lets you know what you have to do to succeed." Thoughts??

The current coach wanted out of the St Henry series, he sure doesn't want any part of Ursuline. BTW, MP is now opening with Columbus Independence week 1.

[USA70PP]

^^^
First year at Pleasant, or other way around?

[BigBoss]

A 9 team league????? Surely you're joking. A HUGE problem in football. You do realize that in a 9 school league OOC games have to be found in weeks 3 thru 10. Every school has a "bye" in one of the weeks 3 thru 10. A HUGE PROBLEM in weeks 4 thru 10. Finding games in weeks 1 thru 3 is child's play in comparison.

No this wasn't a joke at all. The MAC is doing something very similar. They have a 10 team league I know this but they are only playing 8 league games and 2 non league games. I think it is working very well for them I mean they did get half their conference into the playoffs (Coldwater, Versallies, Marion Local, Delphos St. Johns, Minster). The 9 team league gives you the chance to get 2 non conference games you get an 8 game league schedule. I just think it would be easier to fill 2 non league slots than 3, I mean someone is thinking about Pleasant and Ursuline playing. With 3 non league games to fill you will be forced to be playing teams all over the state.

The Schedule is simple:

Week 1: Non League
Week 2: Non League
Weeks 3-10: League Play

Here is Coldwaters Schedule to prove its not hard

Coldwater 2011
8/26 H Kenton (14-1) [4:14] L 17-24
9/2 A Hicksville (11-3) [5:18] W 51-13
9/9 H Anna (6-4) [5:20] W 17-0
9/16 A St Henry (1-9) [6:24] W 28-7
9/23 H Versailles (9-3) [5:20] W 36-19
9/30 A Parkway (3-7) [5:20] W 28-0
10/7 H St John's (10-4) [6:22] W 17-14
10/14 A Marion Local (13-2) [6:24] L 0-7
10/21 H New Bremen (0-10) [6:24] W 30-21
10/28 A Minster (9-4) [6:24] L 6-22

[wood duck]

^^^ Reread Paladin's post. Weeks 3 thru 10 are going to be trouble finding non-league games. With a nine team league, one team will have to play a non-league opponent from weeks 3-10.

[LadyKnights]

I already posted this in another thread but I wanted to add it here

This is what I have heard about the MOAC and the adding of schools, Highland wanted the league to shift towards Knox county by adding Centerburg and Fredricktown so Fairbanks and JA were added to balance it east/west location of schools. Elgin, Ridgedale, and Northmor were upset about the adding of JA so all three schools have been rumored to leave the MOAC with Ridgedale already announcing they will be changing leagues. This caused Highland to want to replace the three schools with the rest of the Knox county small schools.

With talking with coaches at Northmor there is absolutely no problem with adding JA, as they would be on the big school side and would probably not have to play them much if at all. The biggest concern is that Highland is a bigger school, coming from the big school side and move to the small school side with the new alignment of the MOAC. Elgin (which is smaller than Highland) stays on the big school side...They are the ones taking the hardest hit with what would be the new MOAC.

[osu_silveraider]

Everybody can be mad at Hoyng all they want...He has the balls to stand on one side of the fence or the other. In the final analysis, he only has one vote, seems some of the other ADs should be who you would be venting your hate toward...It was a 10-0 vote to add the four teams that they did and align the divisions the way they did. Mike's vote was only one...after reading all your posts, it appears he had 9 votes and the rest of the Ads had 1/9 of a vote. Some of the Ads at the schools of these disgruntled fans need to sack up and stand up. You can blame Hoyng all you want but you really need to be evaluating your own AD.

[paladin]

No this wasn't a joke at all. The MAC is doing something very similar. They have a 10 team league I know this but they are only playing 8 league games and 2 non league games. I think it is working very well for them I mean they did get half their conference into the playoffs (Coldwater, Versallies, Marion Local, Delphos St. Johns, Minster). The 9 team league gives you the chance to get 2 non conference games you get an 8 game league schedule. I just think it would be easier to fill 2 non league slots than 3, I mean someone is thinking about Pleasant and Ursuline playing. With 3 non league games to fill you will be forced to be playing teams all over the state.

The Schedule is simple:

Week 1: Non League
Week 2: Non League
Weeks 3-10: League Play

Here is Coldwaters Schedule to prove its not hard

Coldwater 2011
8/26 H Kenton (14-1) [4:14] L 17-24
9/2 A Hicksville (11-3) [5:18] W 51-13
9/9 H Anna (6-4) [5:20] W 17-0
9/16 A St Henry (1-9) [6:24] W 28-7
9/23 H Versailles (9-3) [5:20] W 36-19
9/30 A Parkway (3-7) [5:20] W 28-0
10/7 H St John's (10-4) [6:22] W 17-14
10/14 A Marion Local (13-2) [6:24] L 0-7
10/21 H New Bremen (0-10) [6:24] W 30-21
10/28 A Minster (9-4) [6:24] L 6-22

You must be from another planet. 10 school and 8 school leagues are great, nine school leagues can be nightmares. In a 10 school league each school plays another league school each week for 9 weeks. Or if they wish skip a school every year and play 2 non-league games in....here's the key...THE FIRST 3 WEEKS of the season when 8 school leagues are looking for non-league games. Why are NINE school leagues bad??? BECAUSE THERE IS NOT AN EVEN NUMBER OF SCHOOLS. Completely completely, completely different situation than 10 or 8 school leagues. This is 2nd grade math here. Take ANY odd number of objects and pair up all of the objects by 2's and there will ALWAYS be an odd object with no other object to pair it with.

10 school leagues AND 8 school leagues have ZERO problems scheduling non-league games. Why do you suppose the vast majority of high school leagues have 10 or 8 schools and most of those are 8 school leagues? I'd be surprised if a 9 school league ever exists on purpose for an extended period of time in Ohio they would continuously be looking for one more school for their league or encouraging one to leave.

In a 10 school league everyone plays a non-league game in week 1. The other nine weeks of the season the 10 schools play each other....NO MORE NON-LEAGUE GAMES REQUIRED. In an 8 school league you have non-league games the first 3 weeks of the season. Since most leagues have 8 schools this is never a problem.

Pay attention now, we're going to talk about a 9 school league:

Week 1, All nine schools play a non-league game, no problem.
Week 2, 1 vs 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, 7 vs 8. No one for 9. No problem finding a non-league game in week 2 because most leagues have 8 schools and schedule non-league games in weeks 1 thru 3.
Week 3, same as week 2, except different schools play each other and there is another school without a league school to play. No problem again, in weeks 1 thru 3.
Week 4, Week, 5, Week 6, Week 7, Week 8, Week 9, Week 10 are ALL problems and it gets worse as the season goes on. There are a few 7 and 6 school leagues and there are some independents. But finding a school to play will probably mean playing a DI inner city school, a Big Bad private school or a drive to the Ohio River were they play schools on the other side of the river and would be glad to schedule an OHIO school for a home and home with a 200 mile bus ride.

[blitzman]

Just add Marion Harding & make it a 10 team league... Harding is D-2, so be it.. Look at the computer points a team will get when Pleasant, NU, & RV beats them. lol... I dont wanna hear the BS that Harding is to big.
New League
Harding D-2
RV & BV D-3
Galion, Upper, North Union, Ontario D-4
Elgin , Pleasant, D-5 Boths schools are border line D-4 schools..
& find #10 somewhere..

WBL
Celina, Wapak D-2
Defiance, Shawnee, Elida, St Marys D-3
Kenton, Bath, Ottawa-Glandorf, & Van Wert D-4
Kenton plays lil ol' Coldwater D-5 first game every year...


So the new league can work in football..

[osu_silveraider]

Because they already do this and have no problem with it


The Highland AD is also the coach of the boys basketball team this year which is going to be really bad. Will some of the other league coaches make a point to him and others about the actions which were taken and why Highland wanted this new league? This will most likely be the last year (or two) BV, Pleasant, RV, NU, and others play Highland. Will teams send Highland a not so nice message and going away "gift"?

...and it's all about giving kids opportunities and teaching life lessons of sportsmanship and integrity... this "gift" is based on rationale that the kids have no say in...class act.

Again...when a bunch of light shorted ADs sit on the fence when a proposal is made and fail to step up and present what would be best for their school, it is their own fault. Do you still not see how weak it makes your Ads look when you put all this blame on Hoyng? Again it was a 10-0 vote. It is your own spineless AD's fault. I would suggest your ADs had no problem with it...or had no alternatives...or didn't have the guts to present an alternative if they did have a problem with it. 10-0 seems to be pretty unanimous. It appears one man did stand up...is it good for Highland? Yes...much bigger gates and much shorter trips...it is huge economically for Highland. Numbers....When you walk the halls of Highland you will not find 200 plus males in the upper three grades...You will find around 150. They have to include the kids at Tri-State academy who are not allowed to participate in sports. They are from all over the state...and most are incredible athletes. You guys would really be honked off if they could use them. But anyhow, use any excuse you can if it makes you all feel better. Let Highland and Hoyng be your scapegoat for your own ADs shortcomings.

[j sikma]

I never said teams SHOULD send Highland a message. I asked IF they would.

In the "real world" we have all been in situations where people go along with something they don't agree on if they realize it is a battle they are going to lose. Was this a case of give me my way or I'll take my ball and go home? We all believe differently who is at fault and why. Doesn't matter. What matters is the result of the "vote" to expand the MOAC is going to be the demise of a league with the original 10 members. Ridgedale is gone. Others will probably follow.

[paladin]

Just add Marion Harding & make it a 10 team league... Harding is D-2, so be it.. Look at the computer points a team will get when Pleasant, NU, & RV beats them. lol... I dont wanna hear the BS that Harding is to big.
New League
Harding D-2
RV & BV D-3
Galion, Upper, North Union, Ontario D-4
Elgin , Pleasant, D-5 Boths schools are border line D-4 schools..
& find #10 somewhere..

WBL
Celina, Wapak D-2
Defiance, Shawnee, Elida, St Marys D-3
Kenton, Bath, Ottawa-Glandorf, & Van Wert D-4
Kenton plays lil ol' Coldwater D-5 first game every year...

So the new league can work in football..

The WBL is a 10 team league, they work fine. 9 school leagues are HORRENDOUS. Eliminate a team for an 8 school league or add a team for a 10 team league. Doubt a 10th team can be found with Harding in the league, thus no Harding makes an 8 school league.

[football123]

Because they already do this and have no problem with it




...and it's all about giving kids opportunities and teaching life lessons of sportsmanship and integrity... this "gift" is based on rationale that the kids have no say in...class act.

Again...when a bunch of light shorted ADs sit on the fence when a proposal is made and fail to step up and present what would be best for their school, it is their own fault. Do you still not see how weak it makes your Ads look when you put all this blame on Hoyng? Again it was a 10-0 vote. It is your own spineless AD's fault. I would suggest your ADs had no problem with it...or had no alternatives...or didn't have the guts to present an alternative if they did have a problem with it. 10-0 seems to be pretty unanimous. It appears one man did stand up...is it good for Highland? Yes...much bigger gates and much shorter trips...it is huge economically for Highland. Numbers....When you walk the halls of Highland you will not find 200 plus males in the upper three grades...You will find around 150. They have to include the kids at Tri-State academy who are not allowed to participate in sports. They are from all over the state...and most are incredible athletes. You guys would really be honked off if they could use them. But anyhow, use any excuse you can if it makes you all feel better. Let Highland and Hoyng be your scapegoat for your own ADs shortcomings.

From my understanding it was a 9-1 vote.

[osu_silveraider]

It was reported 10-0....but if you know for sure, who was the lone ranger? I would like to give him a pat on the back.

[football123]

From my understanding Elgin was the lone one to vote it down.

[osu_silveraider]

Thanks...and good for them. I mean that. I was pretty sure it was reported as a 10-0 vote. I will try to find the link. I dont suppose that even means it is accurate.

[Captain Tony]

I think you are correct Silver. The vote was 10-0 for expansion but the vote to include JA was 9-1 with Elgin voting no. FYI, the vote for MH was 7-3 so they just missed by 1 yes vote in getting in.

[osu_silveraider]

AH....thanks for the clarification Captain! Wow did not realize that MH was that close to getting in. Still just a big mess my captain, huh?

[Captain Tony]

No doubt silver.

[BigBoss]

You must be from another planet. 10 school and 8 school leagues are great, nine school leagues can be nightmares. In a 10 school league each school plays another league school each week for 9 weeks. Or if they wish skip a school every year and play 2 non-league games in....here's the key...THE FIRST 3 WEEKS of the season when 8 school leagues are looking for non-league games. Why are NINE school leagues bad??? BECAUSE THERE IS NOT AN EVEN NUMBER OF SCHOOLS. Completely completely, completely different situation than 10 or 8 school leagues. This is 2nd grade math here. Take ANY odd number of objects and pair up all of the objects by 2's and there will ALWAYS be an odd object with no other object to pair it with.

10 school leagues AND 8 school leagues have ZERO problems scheduling non-league games. Why do you suppose the vast majority of high school leagues have 10 or 8 schools and most of those are 8 school leagues? I'd be surprised if a 9 school league ever exists on purpose for an extended period of time in Ohio they would continuously be looking for one more school for their league or encouraging one to leave.

In a 10 school league everyone plays a non-league game in week 1. The other nine weeks of the season the 10 schools play each other....NO MORE NON-LEAGUE GAMES REQUIRED. In an 8 school league you have non-league games the first 3 weeks of the season. Since most leagues have 8 schools this is never a problem.

Pay attention now, we're going to talk about a 9 school league:

Week 1, All nine schools play a non-league game, no problem.
Week 2, 1 vs 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, 7 vs 8. No one for 9. No problem finding a non-league game in week 2 because most leagues have 8 schools and schedule non-league games in weeks 1 thru 3.
Week 3, same as week 2, except different schools play each other and there is another school without a league school to play. No problem again, in weeks 1 thru 3.
Week 4, Week, 5, Week 6, Week 7, Week 8, Week 9, Week 10 are ALL problems and it gets worse as the season goes on. There are a few 7 and 6 school leagues and there are some independents. But finding a school to play will probably mean playing a DI inner city school, a Big Bad private school or a drive to the Ohio River were they play schools on the other side of the river and would be glad to schedule an OHIO school for a home and home with a 200 mile bus ride.

My fault I just realized where my logic has a huge hole. I am not joking about doing something similar to what the MAC does in only playing a 8 game league schedule with 2 non league games. The only way to do that is get a 10 team league and rotate the league schedule just like the MAC. I feel so stupid for not understanding why my 9 team league plan wouldn't work lol

[underthelights]

I don't understand all of the Hoyng hating on here. Thank you silveraider for pointing out the "should be" obvious. I think maybe there might be a little bad blood on here from a few former athletes or parents that got throttled by some of his basketball teams in the past ;)

[baronalum]

BV is staying with NU, RV, MP, and EL (if they want to stay), as well as JA and FB. HL is staying with CT, MG, NM, FT, and CB. They can add EK or DV if they want to replace RD. Whether the two divisions stay in one league remains to be seen. Upper, Galion, and Ontario should join MH to find a new league. If the Mid-Ohio Conf. splits, then they are up for grabs.

[j sikma]

The moac is staying intact then?

[Captain Tony]

I don't understand all of the Hoyng hating on here. Thank you silveraider for pointing out the "should be" obvious. I think maybe there might be a little bad blood on here from a few former athletes or parents that got throttled by some of his basketball teams in the past ;)

I didn't know grandparents held grudges that long.

[Captain Tony]

The moac is staying intact then?

Doubtful

[Cat500]

MOAC probably will be intact for the 2013-14 seasons; after that, I would say the prognosis is grim

[Hank_Hill]

So we again have conflicting reports...my source says it's still on the ropes, but somewhat looking better than it did before.

[grub]

Upper, Galion, and Ontario will be playing in the "old" NCC until the 2014 season is complete. Once the 2015 season starts, right now it's anyone's guess what is going to happen then at this time.

[Bevo]

I am hearing some far-flung scenarios.

(Grub - how long, how far, what time?)

[Cat500]

Hank: I would say that your assessment is correct; It looks like the MOAC will make it through the 2013-2014 school year; after that, I would not make any bets about the future of the league. That is, however, looking better than it was two-three weeks ago about the future of the conference.

[paladin]

Upper, Galion, and Ontario will be playing in the "old" NCC until the 2014 season is complete. Once the 2015 season starts, right now it's anyone's guess what is going to happen then at this time.

An agreement on a new league or leagues will be made well before the 2014-15 season begins. So rescheduling of non-league games can be done in a timely manner. New leagues could possibly commence as soon as the 2013-14 season. IF all schools have their ducks in a row. ALSO, remember that in 2012-13 basketball goes from 20 to 22 regular season games. ALL schools will looking for new non-league games. The smart ADs will get those locked in ASAP.

[paladin]

BV is staying with NU, RV, MP, and EL (if they want to stay), as well as JA and FB. HL is staying with CT, MG, NM, FT, and CB. They can add EK or DV if they want to replace RD. Whether the two divisions stay in one league remains to be seen. Upper, Galion, and Ontario should join MH to find a new league. If the Mid-Ohio Conf. splits, then they are up for grabs.

I hear from a couple of administrators that the MOAC schools have attended meetings with the NCC schools and a couple of other schools looking into a new league.

[Hank_Hill]

An agreement on a new league or leagues will be made well before the 2014-15 season begins. So rescheduling of non-league games can be done in a timely manner. New leagues could possibly commence as soon as the 2013-14 season. IF all schools have their ducks in a row. ALSO, remember that in 2012-13 basketball goes from 20 to 22 regular season games. ALL schools will looking for new non-league games. The smart ADs will get those locked in ASAP.

If the Northern 10 indeed goes to a double round robin as talked about, they will only each have four NL games to schedule. You'd think Carey and Mohawk would EACH want Calvert, New Riegel and Upper Sandusky on the slate for three of those games.

[Captain Tony]

BV is staying with NU, RV, MP, and EL (if they want to stay), as well as JA and FB. HL is staying with CT, MG, NM, FT, and CB. They can add EK or DV if they want to replace RD. Whether the two divisions stay in one league remains to be seen. Upper, Galion, and Ontario should join MH to find a new league. If the Mid-Ohio Conf. splits, then they are up for grabs.

You better check your school out. They are going to a MSL meeting according to Carol Evans.

[j sikma]

This is nuts!

[underthelights]

I agree. I hate to see the MOAC fall apart. I just want to see a true 2 division conference.

[Bevo]

sikma - you are right!!

[Hank_Hill]

The MSL is in a pickle too.....maybe an even worse than here in NW Ohio.

Beyond the Buckeye Division with Amanda Clearcreek, Teays Valley, Hamilton Twp., Circleville, Logan Elm, Fairfield Union, Bloom Carroll and presumably Liberty Union (to replace Canal) the league is a complete disaster.

After that group, all that's left is a hodge podge of teams in different areas of the city that range from Div. II (Bexley) to Div. VI (Grove City Christian). I really don't know how they are going to make something work. The area stretches from Worthington, to Berne Union, to West Jefferson.

The Northern 10 may have left a sour taste in people's mouth, but what they did accomplish was putting together a group of schools that geographically fit together and that were roughly the same size. They may have to live which each other for a long time though, too many bridges were burnt.

[j sikma]

Pondering the moac, ncc, msl, northern 10 and came up with this based on geography and other factors. there are some size differences in the league but the difference from the biggest to the smallest schools in most of the leagues is closer than the current leagues. The N10 is set with their teams. Buckeye Valley and Jonathan Alder go to the MSL or the OCC. Both but especially BV would be a great fit with Hayes, Big Walnut, etc. Then a league with Pleasant, River Valley, Upper Sandusky, Mt. Gilead, Ontario, Northmor, Cardington, and Galion. Another league with Highland, Centerburg, Fredericktown, East Knox, Danville, Clear Fork, Lucas, and Plymouth. A third league with Elgin, Fairbanks, North Union, Upper Scioto Valley, Ridgemont, Marion Catholic, and DeGraff Riverside

[Hank_Hill]

BV and JA aren't getting into the OCC unless they add another division, which I don't see happening. The OCC has enough problems on their hands right now with the Westerville situation. Even if a spot opened, BV would be down in the pecking order.

BV may have beaten Delaware this year, but there's no way they could handle that division on a regular basis. BW, New Albany and even Hilliard Bradley would have crushed them.

No way in haties Clear Fork is joining a league with Lucas, Danville, EK and Plymouth, nor does Plymouth leave the Firelands.

Finally, no way does that third league mentioned stand a chance. Marion Catholic has dropped football, Ridgemont isn't far away and Riverside/USV have stablized a bit in the NWCC, especially since that conference has expanded.

[j sikma]

What drives me crazy in all of this discussion is all people think about is football. its all the other sports too! I love high school football but I am thinking teams should just play an independent football schedule of their choosing but be in leagues for everything else!!!

[Hank_Hill]

What drives me crazy in all of this discussion is all people think about is football. its all the other sports too! I love high school football but I am thinking teams should just play an independent football schedule of their choosing but be in leagues for everything else!!!

1. Football is usually the biggest gate.

2. It's much harder to schedule weeks 4-10 in football. If you have an 8-team league, but seven play football, you have nightmare on your hands as an AD.

3. You can schedule basketball, volleyball, tennis, etc on just about any night of the week, making it easier to schedule with an odd amount of teams in your league You can make that game up somewhere. You can't in football. Playing Thursday night games in HS football stretchs it.

[blitzman]

This is a mess.. But its sure fun to talk about & keepin people guessin..lol

[Hank_Hill]

Sounds like Upper has interest from the MOAC. An offer mY be on the table. They would take Ridgedale's spot. It would be a pretty long trip to Fairbanks and JA for the Rams.

[j sikma]

Sounds like Upper has interest from the MOAC. An offer mY be on the table. They would take Ridgedale's spot. It would be a pretty long trip to Fairbanks and JA for the Rams.

would they change any of the schools in the divisions or would one division (with Upper) have 8 schools and the other have 6? Or would they eliminate JA and Fairbanks and go 6 on each side?

The following MOAC divisions would be good. it would allow teams to play 5 nonleague football games and 5 league games (schools could play across the division in weeks 1-5 in "nonleague" games if they were interested in doing so - this would also keep some of the current MOAC teams playing one another.
Highland
Northmor
Cardington
Mt. Gilead
Fredericktown
Centerburg

Pleasant
Elgin
North Union
Buckeye Valley
River Valley
Upper Sandusky

[Bevo]

Fairbanks and Jonathan Alder are in the mix also, I hear.

[grub]

Got the latest scoop from the source Bev. I'll let you know about the latest and greatest soon.

[historyteacher]

Looks like Upper Sandusky is replacing Ridgedale in MOAC starting 2014.

[historyteacher]

It will be 2 divisions with Alder and Fairbanks also joining the league.

[historyteacher]

Here is the scoop. Upper Sandusky is getting ready to join the MOAC. Galion will probably end up back in the NOL. Ontario is screwed. To big for MOAC east division and too small for Mansf. area league. Best case scenario is for MOAC to break up and form new conferences. Marion county, Upper, Galion and Ontario. Morrow county and Knox county. A few trips to Jonathon Alder will probably get the ball rolling.

[USA70PP]

What about North Union and Buckeye Valley in this scenario?

[paladin]

would they change any of the schools in the divisions or would one division (with Upper) have 8 schools and the other have 6? Or would they eliminate JA and Fairbanks and go 6 on each side?

The following MOAC divisions would be good. it would allow teams to play 5 nonleague football games and 5 league games (schools could play across the division in weeks 1-5 in "nonleague" games if they were interested in doing so - this would also keep some of the current MOAC teams playing one another.
Highland
Northmor
Cardington
Mt. Gilead
Fredericktown
Centerburg

Pleasant
Elgin
North Union
Buckeye Valley
River Valley
Upper Sandusky

Playing 2 cross over game with schools in the other Division is MUCH easier than finding non-league games in weak 4 and 5.

[historyteacher]

New Moac also talking about keeping week 10 open. 1st place in both divisions play each other, second place play and down the line. Good shot at major points for smaller school if can upset bigger school. Also crossover game will be by school size. Largest team will play largest team in other division. Highland would play JA for instance or smallest will play each other Pleasant vs. Cardington I would assume. This game would be same teams most years but could change if enrollment changes. Not sure how much crossover there will be for basketball. Also no Junior High league.

[historyteacher]

Jonathon Alder and Fairbanks are still in. Elgin wants to be in other division.

[Pirategrad13]

Jonathon Alder and Fairbanks are still in. Elgin wants to be in other division.

I say put Cardington, Mt. Gilead, Northmor, Highland, Fredericktown, Centerburg, Elgin in one division and Jonathan Alder, Pleasant, Fairbanks, Upper Sandusky, River Valley, Buckeye Valley, and North Union in the other. Probably won't get much more fair than that, except Highland and Fairbanks should probably be swapped if we're talking about school size.

[j sikma]

If Upper is joining the MOAC, invite Galion, East Knox, and Danville to get more teams and go to three smaller divisions. In football, you play everyone in your division once and then you can schedule teams from the other moac divisions or other teams around the state for your "non-conference" games. In volleyball, basketball, baseball, softball etc you can play everyone else once and still have 4-6 non-league games. To cut down on travel costs, volleyball could schedule 3 or 4 team play dates on a Saturday (like the current invitationals do) and get 2-3 league matches completed in one day. Baseball and softball could have saturday doubleheaders with 3 teams at one location where everyone plays twice.

Highland, Centerburg, Fredericktown, East Knox, Danville, Northmor
Morrow/Knox Co. Schools. The longest drives would be Northmor to East Knox/Danville and the Knights currently play EK in many sports. Danville HS is 36 miles from NHS. Highland centerburg, and fredericktown are all close.

North Union, Jonathan Alder, Fairbanks, Buckeye Valley, Elgin
The teams on the western edge of the league. NU, BV, and Elgin are now in the same MOAC divsion. Fairbanks currently plays NU and Elgin in several sports. JA is the closest to these four schools. JA to Fairbanks is 12 miles, JA to BV 25 miles, 29 miles from JA to NU, 40 miles from JA to Elgin. Elgin has close trips to NU @ 13 miles, BV @ 21 miles. Elgin to Fairbanks is 32 miles. Compared, Elgin to Highland is 36 miles, Elgin to Fred is 41 miles, Elgin to Centerburg is 49 miles.

Mt. Gilead, Cardington, River Valley, Pleasant, Upper Sandusky, Galion
Rivalry division - C vs MG. P vs RV. US vs Galion. Longest drive is Upper Sandusky/Cardington @ 36 miles and Upper to Mt gilead @ 36 miles. Cardingtons other mileage trips are short: MG 6 miles, RV 12 miles, Pleasant 14 miles, Galion 19 miles. MG has: Card 6 miles, RV 11 miles, Galion 13 miles, Pleasant 20 miles. R Valley is centrally located and has 11 mile trips to MG and Pleasant, a 12 mile trip to Card, 19 to Galion, and 24 to Upper. Pleasant ranges from 11 miles to 28 miles away. P to RV is 11 miles, P to Galion is 28, P to Upper is 27, P to MG is 20, P to card is 14 miles.

[paladin]

If Upper is joining the MOAC, invite Galion, East Knox, and Danville to get more teams and go to three smaller divisions. In football, you play everyone in your division once and then you can schedule teams from the other divisions or other teams in the state for your "non-conference" games. In volleyball, basketball, baseball, softball etc you can play everyone else once and still have 4-6 non-league games. To cut down on travel costs, volleyball could schedule 3 or 4 team play dates on a Saturday (like the current invitationals do) and get 2-3 league matches completed in one day. Baseball and softball could have saturday doubleheaders with 3 teams at one location where everyone plays twice.

Highland, Centerburg, Fredericktown, East Knox, Danville, Northmor
Morrow/Knox Co. Schools. The longest drives would be Northmor to East Knox/Danville and the Knights currently play EK in many sports. Danville HS is 36 miles from NHS.

North Union, Jonathan Alder, Fairbanks, Buckeye Valley, Elgin
The teams on the western edge of the league. NU, BV, and Elgin are now in the same MOAC divsion. Fairbanks currently plays NU and Elgin in several sports. JA is the closest to these four moac schools.

Mt. Gilead, Cardington, River Valley, Pleasant, Upper Sandusky, Galion
Rivalry division - C vs MG. P vs RV. US vs Galion. Longest drive is Upper Sandusky/Cardington @ 36 miles. Cardingtons other mileage trips are short: MG 6 miles, RV 12 miles, Pleasant 17 miles, Galion 19 miles

Add Ontario for a total of 18

[j sikma]

paladin - I added more information to the proposal.

The problem with Ontario is where / what division they would fit into.

[blitzman]

If Upper is joining the MOAC, invite Galion, East Knox, and Danville to get more teams and go to three smaller divisions. In football, you play everyone in your division once and then you can schedule teams from the other moac divisions or other teams around the state for your "non-conference" games. In volleyball, basketball, baseball, softball etc you can play everyone else once and still have 4-6 non-league games. To cut down on travel costs, volleyball could schedule 3 or 4 team play dates on a Saturday (like the current invitationals do) and get 2-3 league matches completed in one day. Baseball and softball could have saturday doubleheaders with 3 teams at one location where everyone plays twice.

Highland, Centerburg, Fredericktown, East Knox, Danville, Northmor
Morrow/Knox Co. Schools. The longest drives would be Northmor to East Knox/Danville and the Knights currently play EK in many sports. Danville HS is 36 miles from NHS. Highland centerburg, and fredericktown are all close.

North Union, Jonathan Alder, Fairbanks, Buckeye Valley, Elgin
The teams on the western edge of the league. NU, BV, and Elgin are now in the same MOAC divsion. Fairbanks currently plays NU and Elgin in several sports. JA is the closest to these four schools. JA to Fairbanks is 12 miles, JA to BV 25 miles, 29 miles from JA to NU, 40 miles from JA to Elgin. Elgin has close trips to NU @ 13 miles, BV @ 21 miles. Elgin to Fairbanks is 32 miles. Compared, Elgin to Highland is 36 miles, Elgin to Fred is 41 miles, Elgin to Centerburg is 49 miles.

Mt. Gilead, Cardington, River Valley, Pleasant, Upper Sandusky, Galion
Rivalry division - C vs MG. P vs RV. US vs Galion. Longest drive is Upper Sandusky/Cardington @ 36 miles and Upper to Mt gilead @ 36 miles. Cardingtons other mileage trips are short: MG 6 miles, RV 12 miles, Pleasant 14 miles, Galion 19 miles. MG has: Card 6 miles, RV 11 miles, Galion 13 miles, Pleasant 20 miles. R Valley is centrally located and has 11 mile trips to MG and Pleasant, a 12 mile trip to Card, 19 to Galion, and 24 to Upper. Pleasant ranges from 11 miles to 28 miles away. P to RV is 11 miles, P to Galion is 28, P to Upper is 27, P to MG is 20, P to card is 14 miles.

Just slide Pleasant in with JA, BV, NU, Elgin, & Faibanks..

Put Ontario in with MG, RV, Galion, Upper, Cardington..

[Weiskittle]

I really dont see how Fairbanks still wants to leave the NWCC, this has just turned into a mess

[osu_silveraider]

paladin - I added more information to the proposal.

The problem with Ontario is where / what division they would fit into.

with Ontario is that they have burnt too many bridges (Galion too) and nobody wants them.

[Hank_Hill]

Hasn't Fairbanks already left? JA and FB were formally excepted into the MOAC were they not?

[paladin]

with Ontario is that they have burnt too many bridges (Galion too) and nobody wants them.

What bridges were burnt?

[paladin]

paladin - I added more information to the proposal.

The problem with Ontario is where / what division they would fit into.

Upper Sandusky, Galion and Ontario are currently in the same league.
Galion and Ontario are bordering school districts.
Ontario was a member of the MOC with Highland, Fredericktown, Northmor, Mt. Gilead and Cardington.
Fredericktown was in the NCC and JAC with Ontario.
Northmor was in the JAC with Ontario.
Fredericktown, East Knox and Danville are East of Ontario.
Johnathon Alder, Buckeye Valley, River Valley, Highland, Upper Sandusky and Galion are larger than Ontario.

[j sikma]

Good points paladin. I was thinkin more along the lines of adding Ontario would force a team to move into the JA, BV, NU, Fairbanks, Elgin division and having longer travel times. Pleasant, Highland or R Valley would be the closest to those others. Highland wants to be with Fred and Centerburg. R Valley is a perfect fit geographically in the middle of Upper, MG, Galion, Card and Pleasant. Pleasant is a good fit in both distance and rivalry with those other schools. I was trying to keep teams close in distance due to the Monday-Thursday school night games. earlier nights, bigger crowds.

[baronalum]

With what has already been previously said, the MOAC would benefit by allowing Elgin to slide in place of Ridgedale in the Blue and adding Upper Sandusky to the Red. BV used to scrimmage Upper in football when I was in school (lost there my Jr. year, beat them at home my Sr. year). BV won't be accepted to the OCC since JA hasn't gone. BV doesn't want the travel of the MSL either. I think the MOAC will be fine with this scenario. Btw, Niles (like BV) has been middle of the pack in football but running the table in hoops!

[paladin]

Good points paladin. I was thinkin more along the lines of adding Ontario would force a team to move into the JA, BV, NU, Fairbanks, Elgin division and having longer travel times. Pleasant, Highland or R Valley would be the closest to those others. Highland wants to be with Fred and Centerburg. R Valley is a perfect fit geographically in the middle of Upper, MG, Galion, Card and Pleasant. Pleasant is a good fit in both distance and rivalry with those other schools. I was trying to keep teams close in distance due to the Monday-Thursday school night games. earlier nights, bigger crowds.

Will each of your Divisions award a Championship in every sport?

I think size does matter. ;)

All schools say distances traveled is the most important factor when new leagues or Divisions are drawn up, until the smallest school or schools feel the sting of lopsided losses to the bigger schools over a period of time. Then they realize playing in a League or Division with same sized schools is MUCH more important. First there will talk about looking for a "better deal", eventually a school or schools will leave, which can start a domino affect.

Smaller schools that traditionally compete at a high level with bigger schools in the money sports or most sports is the exception as opposed to the rule.

[Weiskittle]

Hasn't Fairbanks already left? JA and FB were formally excepted into the MOAC were they not?

they will regret this before too long

[paladin]

How about two 10 school leagues, considering all schools in limbo, size and geography.

Buckeye Valley 303, River Valley 259, Johnathon Alder 252, Upper Sandusky 216, Galion 215, Ontario 201, North Union 194, Pleasant 166, Elgin 152, Fairbanks 141.

Highland 190(approx), East Knox 165, Loudonville 150, Mt.Gilead 147, Centerburg 146, Federicktown 144, Cardington 143, Northmor 129, Danville 92, Lucas 59


Each could be divided into two Divisions by size or location.

[USA70PP]

Marion Star is reporting that the MOAC has extended an invitation to East Knox and Galion and that Upper accepted their invitation at their 13 Feb board meeting. Looks like a 16 team league.

[midohioguy]

Link:
http://www.marionstar.com/article/20120223/SPORTS/120223006/MOAC-expand-16-teams

[Hank_Hill]

I just wonder how long the Red division will last. There's going to be some loooong trips.

[j sikma]

The MOAC made a huge mistake in admitting JA and Fairbanks. They should have jumped on the chance with Bucyrus still "looking" and had a division of North Union, Buckeye Valley, River Valley, Pleasant, Elgin, Bucyrus, Upper and Galion.

[Hank_Hill]

The MOAC made a huge mistake in admitting JA and Fairbanks. They should have jumped on the chance with Bucyrus still "looking" and had a division of North Union, Buckeye Valley, River Valley, Pleasant, Elgin, Bucyrus, Upper and Galion.

In hindsight, yes. The problem is, when JA and Fairbanks were admitted Bucyrus, Galion and Upper Sandusky weren't looking and didn't think they'd need to be looking.

That being said, I never thought it was a good idea to add JA or Fairbanks either. I don't think Elgin wants to be part of the Blue Division and they are too small for the Red Division.

[j sikma]

I agree. Without Bucyrus, Galion, and Upper looking, JA and Fairbanks were still bad choices to join this league!

[paladin]

The MOAC made a huge mistake in admitting JA and Fairbanks. They should have jumped on the chance with Bucyrus still "looking" and had a division of North Union, Buckeye Valley, River Valley, Pleasant, Elgin, Bucyrus, Upper and Galion.

Bucyrus would never have gone for that. They currently are making a silent protest against how the NCC break up was done. Originally the N10 was going to be the N8. But the organizers of the new league looked really REALLY bad inviting Crawford Country school districts surrounding Bucyrus, but not inviting them. That's also when Ridgedale was given the chance to get away from the MOAC. Don't let anyone fool you. At a future board meeting Bucyrus will gleefully join the N10. Why would they not want to? They will be the largest school in the N10.

[Captain Tony]

^^^ Bucyrus BOE already has approved their entrance in the N10. The protest certainly didn't last long.