Changes coming to the Midland Athletic League?

[Hank_Hill]

As reported on other threads and forums, Carey, Mohawk and Seneca East are exploring joining Wynford, Buckeye Central, Colonel Crawford, Crestline, Riverdale, Marion Elgin and Ridgedale in a new league.

This would break a relationship with Seneca East that's exsisted since 1986 in the MAL. Carey and Mohawk each joined in 1990. It would leave a massive void to fill in the MAL.

Would the MAL consider going to a 12-team football format, split into East/West divisions? My proposal would be this:

East: Tiffin Calvert, Hopewell-Loudon, Fremont St. Joseph, Sandusky St. Mary, Norwalk St. Paul and Monroeville.

West: Elmwood, Gibsonburg, Woodmore, Northwood, Lakota and North Baltimore.

The hardest part of this would be getting NSP and Monroeville to leave the Firelands. However, Western Reserve has already been sniffing around other conferences.

I'm not so sure it would be too much of a problem convincing Elmwood, G-Burg, Woodmore and Northwood to make a move.

[Hank_Hill]

Now I'm hearing that maybe Seneca East wants to be part of this new concept more than the concept wants Seneca East....

[Hank_Hill]

Carey, Mohawk and SE will vote to leave Dec. 1......remaining teams will meet Dec.8

[oldscl]

It seems we are not hearing much here on what the MAL is or isn't doing. I hope they are being agressive and being smart not saying a word until they have the ducks in a row.

I sure wish Elmwood,Gibsonburg and Woodmore would take a good hard look at trying the MAL.

[Hank_Hill]

I think they are sitting back, which is worrisome

[BigTenBuckeye]

Does anyone know if the TAAC is still planning on expanding more? Their previous commissioner said there was a plan to expand to 10 football schools, but that was after adding Gibsonburg AND before stepping down. The "rumors" pointed at both Woodmore and Elmwood.

[jcmack82]

I had the chance to talk to an AD from one of the remaining schools as he said they have been reaching out to other schools once the news broke about the 3 schools ducking tail and leaving broke. Sounds like they have talked to Sandusky St. Mary's, Elmwood, Gibsonburg, Woodmore, and Monroeville among others. He said Gibsonburg was a no because they liked "how easy the TAAC was" after they were able to win 5 games this year.

[meercat_manor]

IF Carey, Mohawk and Seneca East leave look for a St. Mary to be invited and accept. Elmwood and Woodmore will be invited as well, but will be interested to see how attached to the NBC they are(I think they head to MAL). Also something MAL should think about is making St. Wendy's play football again the MAL.

[Hank_Hill]

No way do they let SW return for football....if they get SMCC and Monroeville, they need St.Paul too.

[Village Idiot]

I had the chance to talk to an AD from one of the remaining schools as he said they have been reaching out to other schools once the news broke about the 3 schools ducking tail and leaving broke. Sounds like they have talked to Sandusky St. Mary's, Elmwood, Gibsonburg, Woodmore, and Monroeville among others. He said Gibsonburg was a no because they liked "how easy the TAAC was" after they were able to win 5 games this year.

Sounds like an AD embellishing the truth WRT Gibsonburg. I say that rather than accusing a "whole cloth" lie, because the phrasing is almost identical to the "official" position two years ago of Gibsonburg is not planning to make another move because of "how easy the TAAC was to work with." Meaning, there was no political faction divide to be overcome, no probationary period without a vote, flexible scheduling during the transition, etc. Sounds like someone recycling that old comment and re-applying it in a manner that it wasn't intended in order to take a free shot.

[meercat_manor]

No way do they let SW return for football....if they get SMCC and Monroeville, they need St.Paul too.

Monroeville and St Paul aren't leaving the Firelands

[strykerblue]

I am hearing much of the same from different places too....also heard Margaretta was approached by MAL but wants to stay in SBC as they are hurting financially and cannot absorb more travel costs and smaller gates....most feel when 3 MAL schools make it official that they are leaving that the MAL is ready to add Elmwood, Woodmore and SMCC....sounds like the schools involved want to make this official before end of December 2011 so the new leagues can take effect for start of school year in 2013.

[jcmack82]

SMCC would be a great fit but I heard they weren't real excited about the drive to North Baltimore especially for those mid week games. I am guessing that could be at least a 90 minute or more trip for them. I hope they join though.

[Hank_Hill]

From the Carey school board report last night, it sounds like the new league will be called "The Northern 10" which leads me to believe Ridgedale and Bucyrus are part of this. Becomes a done deal Dec. 1

[d5smith]

sounds alot like the old ncc 1970's and 80's. just drop pleasant and river valley and add seneca east and crestline.

[se007]

It's interesting that the NCC was after Carey, Mohawk and SE a couple of years ago and they declined. I believe that Carey was interested at that time but it was an "all or nothing" thing. Now, most of the teams discussed here are all NCC teams. Why is that?

[meercat_manor]

It's interesting that the NCC was after Carey, Mohawk and SE a couple of years ago and they declined. I believe that Carey was interested at that time but it was an "all or nothing" thing. Now, most of the teams discussed here are all NCC teams. Why is that?

They probably didn't want to be the same conference as Galion and Upper

[timbolt]

If I were from Galion, Upper Sandusky or Ontario I would be pretty angry about this. Where are they going to go?

[paladin]

They probably didn't want to be the same conference as Galion and Upper
OR Ontario.

[paladin]

If I were from Galion, Upper Sandusky or Ontario I would be pretty angry about this. Where are they going to go?

AND Lucas.

Make them wait 4 years. OR until they can attract enough new schools to the NCC OR all 4 schools find new leagues to go to.

[paladin]

I am hearing much of the same from different places too....also heard Margaretta was approached by MAL but wants to stay in SBC as they are hurting financially and cannot absorb more travel costs and smaller gates....most feel when 3 MAL schools make it official that they are leaving that the MAL is ready to add Elmwood, Woodmore and SMCC....sounds like the schools involved want to make this official before end of December 2011 so the new leagues can take effect for start of school year in 2013.

This new league might not start playing games until the 2015-2016 school year.

[Hank_Hill]

No, it would start in 2013

[paladin]

Here's why it COULD be the 2015-2016 school year.

The OHSAA has a rule that states no school can leave a new league until after it has been in existence for two years. The NCC is a a NEW league this year. Ten schools instead of eight. Two 5 school Divisions, a Big school and a Small School Division. A COMPLETELY NEW league this year. Thus due to the OHSAA 2011-12 and 2012-13 must remain unchanged. THEN the NCC has a Bylaw that says a school must give a two year notice before they can leave. The OHSAA says no school can leave for two years, so the 2 year notice doesn't start until AFTER the 2012-13 school year. Thus during the 2013-14 and 2014-15 years school must remain in the NCC, making the 2015-16 the first school year for the Big 10 Northern Whatever League to start play.

COULD is the operative word. If the NCC finds enough new members before 2015-16 OR all 4 remaining schools find new leagues before 2015-16, then the remaining NCC schools will ALLOW the new league to start earlier.

[Hank_Hill]

Right, but there's nothing that says the OHSAA thing and the NCC can't run together. On top of that, there's so much bad blood right now that I'd think everyone would want to sever ties as quickly as possible and move on.

[paladin]

The remaining NCC schools have "the say", they are in control. They have the OHSAA and League Bylaws on their side. NO WAY do they want to "move on" until either enough new schools are added to the NCC OR/AND each of the 4 remaining have found another league. They aren't going to screw themselves after the 5 leaving have screwed them.

[Hank_Hill]

The remaining NCC schools have "the say", they are in control. They have the OHSAA and League Bylaws on their side. NO WAY do they want to "move on" until either enough new schools are added to the NCC OR/AND each of the 4 remaining have found another league. They aren't going to screw themselves after the 5 leaving have screwed them.

I'm pretty sure they've already found replacements to start a new league. We'll see, but I think come Dec. 1 (after the meeting at Mohawk) the league movement will be in full motion. I'd be shocked if all schools involved in the soon to be movement (MAL, NCC, Nothern 8 or 10, MOAC, etc) aren't in place for 2013.

[strykerblue]

I agree from what I have heard they are trying to make this official before year end here in 2011 and next year will be the final year for the old MAL/NCC/MOAC if all goes as planned. This will allow time for schedules to be adjusted for football season in Fall of 2013 as we all know by now football is the reason for most of this madness. I can see Carey winning a lot of football games in the new Northern 10 but how many will Mohawk and SE win?? Other than a great year in 2010 Mohawk has been average and SE rarely wins more than 5-6 games. It will be interesting to watch.

[Hank_Hill]

Seneca East will continue to underachieve, hire and fire questionable coaches and hoover in mediocrity.

[Hank_Hill]

That answers that....

[Hank_Hill]

Today is the day...should be interesting

[Hank_Hill]

The Advertiser-Tribune's handling of this entire thing is an absolute joke. Wouldn't you as a sports editor be all over something like this? Not them. Instead they have a couple of guys translate a school board report to generic printing text. For god sakes, they have four of the 10 schools involved in their direct coverage area and a fifth school, Upper Sandusky, on the sour end of the things in this whole procedure. I mean, it's a pretty big deal for the area, especially considering the longevity of the league. Heck, I haven't even seen an article that mentions Vermilion joining the NOL. How is that?? Get off the chair and make some calls guys.

[Hank_Hill]

It will be interesting to see what happens to North Baltimore now....if the only option is to expand to the NE (SMCC, Margaretta, etc), I wouldn't be surprised to see NB try for the TAAC. The other talked about scenerio of adding Elmwood and Woodmore I would think appeases NB.

[Hank_Hill]

I wonder if what's left of the MAL will consider changing their bylaws and allow 10 football schools?

[strykerblue]

I doubt they go to 10 football schools...that would be 14 members in other sports. Most think they will try and add Elmwood and Woodmore and then maybe SMCC at the urging of the other catholic schools. That would put them back to 12 (8 football) schools. Meeting Dec.8th may provide clarity. I know most articles have said Northern 10 will start in 2014-15 school year but I heard if the other leagues get replacement teams it may start in 2013-14 year.

[Hank_Hill]

As peeved as Crawford County is right now, I'm not sure they can handle waiting until 2014.

I think North Baltimore will be a big issue for SMCC. Elmwood is NB's neighbor, so it would make for two very long trips. I'm really at a loss for how this will all shake out.

[strykerblue]

Now that SMCC is out of the picture let's see who MAL tries to bring in....meeting today but I am not sure what time...anyone know? Hope there will be some news out of this meeting on the new schools.

[Hank_Hill]

Well, unless someone leaks it on here we'll probably have a hard time finding out. I doubt the A-T even knows it's taking place, so there's little chance of a story.

[Hank_Hill]

Cool....I haven't heard anything myself. I've been wondering.

[strykerblue]

Can you post a link

[oldscl]

Wow the talk on MAL getting any takers sure has come a very quiet whisper at best. There is either a lot about to happen or nothing at all.

I would like to see them add Elmwood,Gburg,Woodmore,Northwood and C.Stritch. Do the ten team football and then for other team sports have a north and south. play twice in your div. and one cross over leaving one open game. Wow the ADs would have very little work.

North
Card. Stritch
Northwood
Woodmore
Gburg
Elmwood
Fre.St.Joe
N. Baltimore

South
Lakota
St. Wendelin
Bettsville
Old Fort
Hopewell Louden
Calvert
New Riegel

[strykerblue]

Wow...that would be a pretty radical change. I do agree it has gotten pretty quiet but if this Northern 10 league does not start until 2014 the MAL has some time and does not need to make hasty decisions. I would love to see Bettsville merge with OF before 2014 to eliminate non-competitive games from most sports.

[Hank_Hill]

I think Bettsville would be dissolved into both Old Fort and Lakota districts.

[strykerblue]

Hank....where you at? Anything new in MAL as you seem to have a good handle on what is going on. MAL meeting this week (maybe today) and I know letters went out last month to schools who may be interested. All I keep hearing is that Elmwood and Woodmore are two most likely to be ready to jump for 2014 school year....not sure if MAL can find a 3rd school.

[Hank_Hill]

I've not heard a thing

[Hank_Hill]

Hearing it's the same schools we've all thought previously that the MAL will meet with, but I still can't 100% confirm that.

[Lancer '65]

Too much moving around for little actual gain, if any at all. Schools that do this kind of thing also, I would think, get the reputation of being very transient institutions that will leave you in a second. Eventually, they will not be on the most favored new prospects list.

[strykerblue]

Hearing Elmwood and Woodmore but now Gburg back in discussion and Northwood as well. Had thought Gburg had said they were happy in TAAC? Northwood would be good for football as they are decent most years...just a ways up there for travel. Gburg would make more sense in terms of location. Also heard something about SMCC thinking about it again...looking two years down the road they may want to secure their spot now as they are tiny in the SBC. MAL only needs three teams to make 8 for football

[Hank_Hill]

Football wise, Think about it from a Gibsonburg and Northwood prospective - right now in the TAAC you have Edon and Hilltop which are two hour drives and offer no rival or gate. Danbury may or may not field a team. The rest of the league is below average gates in travel.

Elmwood and Woodmore will need special teams to truly compete in the NBC, which I believe will eventually expand and with bigger schools. There's a reason they looked to the MAL three years ago.

Now those four schools have a chance to reunite with Lakota. Each of tbe four play some combo of the rest of the MAL in football and other sports already.

Remember, there have been some bylaw changes and my guess is that one allows for more than 8 football playing schools. Add SMCC and it's a 10-team league.

[Hank_Hill]

I'm starting to get the idea things are going to completely change for what's left of the MAL and NW Ohio.

[strykerblue]

In what way Hank....more than what we are talking about on here?

[oldscl]

Well if you think about it, IF the MAL gets the three schools it needs or goes for ten football schools and gets FIVE schools. There will be more leagues with empty slots and once again the game of moving leagues starts with the MAL. Like it did when St. Wendelin left MAL in football leaving room for Lakota to join and the rest is history!

[Lancer '65]

Once this starts, as it already has, there is never an end to it. Often times "the grass is always greener on the other side" scenarios don't always pan out and then schools are left out there again. By the way...has anyone asked any of these schools whose names are being tossed around so freely, whether they are actually interested in moving or are we dividing schools simply by somebody's desire to make football better and more equal without much concern for anything else? I think that Northwood is well suited to the league they are currently in and I think that Gibsonburg is also. In small schools, (really small...) gates for athletics are going to be an issue in many cases.

This is another example of simple solutions not really being very effective in the long run. Sometimes I think it is better to leave well enough alone. Also, how about the long traditions that have been established and long time rivalries that have been a major part of what makes high school athletics so compelling? If on balance, it's not really broken, then why fix it. We all have seen examples in our lives of the cure being more deadly than the disease. This may well be one of those times.

[Hank_Hill]

I believe there is a chance the MAL goes to 10 football playing schools and it somewhat makes sense. That being said, I also think there's a chance one current MAL football playing school does not stay in the league. Take it for what it's worth. I think certain schools have more feelers out there than some in the current MAL may think.

[BigTenBuckeye]

From the Senior Reports-

Northern Buckeye Conference

updated 1-27-12

From: Larry Jones – Northern Buckeye Conference Commissioner

Re: Northern Buckeye Conference Members

Date: January 27, 2012

In light of the possibility of movement of schools in other leagues the superintendents, principals and athletic directors of the Northern Buckeye Conference met this morning to discuss the stability of the conference. After much discussion the feeling was that the Northern Buckeye Conference is a solid conference and it will be moving forward with the eight schools who are presently members. All eight schools are committed to the success of the conference. In the future the Northern Buckeye Conference will always be committed to do what is best for its members.

Thank you.
Larry Jones
Commissioner – Northern Buckeye Conference

So it looks like Elmwood and Woodmore will be staying put in the NBC in light of today's MAL meeting.

[Hank_Hill]

Saw that...although I'm not sure Elmwood was invited today.

[BigTenBuckeye]

I'm very interested to see what gets stirred up this week: who gets invited to meetings, what proposals get made, and what other discussion gets thrown around. The MAL meeting today and the "western OCC" meeting on Wednesday could get us back into that pre-Christmas break speculation. At least after this week, we might have a better idea of how the MAL and the "RCL" could impact other nearby leagues (SBC, NOL, N10).


I did find out this weekend that there is very little interest in the Firelands Conference to add both Loudonville and Lucas, so I really have no idea what those 2 districts are going to wind up doing.

[Lancer '65]

I read in the paper a day or two ago that the administrators and AD's of the Northern Buckeye Conference issued a joint statement that all eight schools were staying with the league and were happy with the set up. There will be no change for the upcoming season. So much for the conjecture surrounding several of the NBC member schools being dissatisfied and looking to "jump ship" after only one year in the league.

[strykerblue]

I would not be shocked to see Gibsonburg, Northwood and SMCC as the 3 new MAL teams. Could see Shelby and Willard jump to RCL too and that could lead to an NOL-SBC type merger with two divisions.

[strykerblue]

So...any news from MAL meeting...who was actually there?

[Hank_Hill]

Nothing happened. All that was said was they'd be contacting other leagues going forward. I have no idea what that means.

[strykerblue]

MAL guys better get their crap together or others may be leaving in next 12 months.

[Village Idiot]

It may already be a foregone conclusion. With what Hank heard, if the MAL is looking to other "leagues" and not to prospective "schools", it sounds to be an admission that their best hope is either for a league consolidation with someone (not likely: NBC is at 8, TAAC is at 8/10, N10 is at 10 pending Bucyrus, FC is at 8), or some kind of consolidated scheduling arrangement to pick up a couple of late season games each year (again, problematic with the surrounding leagues).

MAL got ####ed twice by Carey, SE, and Mohawk. The MAL was in a position to go to 10/14 two years ago, which might have made SE a little more reluctant to bail with the Wyandot County schools, had the resulting league still been 8/12.

Even had SE bailed, the previous addition of Elmwood would've likely precluded the NBC from taking Fostoria in order to stay at 6. Now, two years later, the NOL/Fostoria relationship would be even more strained, and there would be great pressure in the NBC to, still trying to stay on an even number, trade Woodmore for Fostoria, leaving Woodmore available, which would have made a total of a three-for-three, all FB, trade. Or, had that not developed, Fostoria might have been available to the MAL outright.

Even in the worst-case scenario, Gibsonburg and Elmwood to the MAL, Woodmore to the NBC, Fostoria staying in the NOL, followed by Carey, Seneca East, and Mohawk to the N10, the MAL and TAAC would each have seven and could have jointly scheduled their Week 4-10 bye weeks against each other.

[DaPlane]

It may already be a foregone conclusion. With what Hank heard, if the MAL is looking to other "leagues" and not to prospective "schools", it sounds to be an admission that their best hope is either for a league consolidation with someone (not likely: NBC is at 8, TAAC is at 8/10, N10 is at 10 pending Bucyrus, FC is at 8), or some kind of consolidated scheduling arrangement to pick up a couple of late season games each year (again, problematic with the surrounding leagues).

MAL got ####ed twice by Carey, SE, and Mohawk. The MAL was in a position to go to 10/14 two years ago, which might have made SE a little more reluctant to bail with the Wyandot County schools, had the resulting league still been 8/12.

Even had SE bailed, the previous addition of Elmwood would've likely precluded the NBC from taking Fostoria in order to stay at 6. Now, two years later, the NOL/Fostoria relationship would be even more strained, and there would be great pressure in the NBC to, still trying to stay on an even number, trade Woodmore for Fostoria, leaving Woodmore available, which would have made a total of a three-for-three, all FB, trade. Or, had that not developed, Fostoria might have been available to the MAL outright.

Even in the worst-case scenario, Gibsonburg and Elmwood to the MAL, Woodmore to the NBC, Fostoria staying in the NOL, followed by Carey, Seneca East, and Mohawk to the N10, the MAL and TAAC would each have seven and could have jointly scheduled their Week 4-10 bye weeks against each other.

That would definitely be a worst-case scenario.

[oldscl]

Yes it sure is a big thank you to SE, Moh and Carey. I hope their grass is greener and stays that way for them. If the MAL falls apart they won't be able to come back if it turns out to be a bad move to the northern ten.

This could be an interesting few year more years.

[Hank_Hill]

To me it's very poor planning and a lack of forward thinking by adminstrators and commisioner of the MAL.

There's been so much movement and talk in the last three years and it seems as though they took some people's word at bay. The fact is, the thought of the N10 scenerio didn't just arise this past summer/fall. They had a chance to protect themselves from the current situation and failed to do so.

More amazing is the fact that they failed to learn from watching the NOL seemingly fall apart in front of their eyes. That league is still facing problems (which could quickly escalate in the coming month) and hasn't recovered. It might not.

Even now the public comments have been "thank you Seneca East, Carey and Mohawk, good luck in your future." It doesn't seem like anyone had questions for those schools. What's done is done, but it doesn't sound like the MAL went down fighting.

Who knows what's really going on behind the scenes. The local newspaper has done zero investigating/reporting on the situation.

I can maybe see Calvert, St. Joseph and H-L sticking together (although I'm not holding my breathe on H-L), but otherwise I think it's every school for itself.

[strykerblue]

HL and maybe others in MAL have been talking to BVC....MAL schools may also be talking to TAAC or Firelands Conference. It sounds like it is every man for himself at this point...dicey times for the schools with no football too (Old Fort, SW and New Riegel)...Bettsville not even a factor as nobody will take them. Some feel NB will go North to TAAC, HL will go to BVC and Calvert and SJCC may look to Firelands. Lakota could go BVC or TAAC. Anyone else heard anything like this?

[Hank_Hill]

Calvert to the Firelands makes no sense whatsoever. They would be better as an independant - the closest FC school is Monroeville. Furthermore, there's no opening in the Firelands nor does there look to be.

Let's face it, there's no fit for the remaining MAL members as a whole. That was pretty much the reality as soon as Woodmore, Gibsonburg and Elmwood were off the table.

Bettsville will almost have to become and indy. They only offer a handful of sports and you can never be sure baseball, softball or girls basketball will field teams. The MAL has basically been kind in keeping them around.

There are some BVC rumblings, but how does something like that really turn out? Do they go to 12 teams? Or gulp, 16? I don't see a great way to divide out either scenerio. Does the BVC really want to add NB and Lakota? Neither bring anything to the table other than new facilities. Riverdale and H-L? That might be a different story if they could make it work.

Sure, they could maybe work something out with the TAAC, but I can't see it being a 20-year old solution. And then what does the TAAC do with Edon and Hilltop come football season? The TAAC did make mention when Gibsonburg was added that the five year plan was to add schools and go to a 2-division setup. They had a new commish come aboard in 2011, so I don't know if that's still in the cards. You'd think NB and Lakota would be obvious choices.

[strykerblue]

Now word is BVC has voted against any expansion so no MAL teams will be added. MAL talking to TAAC about a football only plan for their schools so they can make the schedule work and pair the better programs together. MAL would remain intact for all other sports if this can be worked out. MAL will be at 9 schools when SE, Mohawk and Carey leave. However that is 2 years away so by then Bettsville may not be competing at Varsity level so MAL may well be an 8 team league at that time. Could go back to home and away play in most other sports to help in scheduling with 8 teams too.

[Lancer '65]

It has already been determined by the members of the NBC that there will be no changes in the coming year and that the member schools are happy with the way things are going. There have been other area leagues also that have indicated that they will not be changing in the immediate future. I don't really think that leagues will masively reorganize to match up the football teams more equitably. There is quite a bit more to league formulation than for the interests of football fans. I think we are spinning our wheels for nothing if football is the only reason for league reorganization, and the way I'm reading this thread, that's what it seems like to me.

[Hank_Hill]

It has already been determined by the members of the NBC that there will be no changes in the coming year and that the member schools are happy with the way things are going. There have been other area leagues also that have indicated that they will not be changing in the immediate future. I don't really think that leagues will masively reorganize to match up the football teams more equitably. There is quite a bit more to league formulation than for the interests of football fans. I think we are spinning our wheels for nothing if football is the only reason for league reorganization, and the way I'm reading this thread, that's what it seems like to me.

Football also brings in the most gate money and supports other sports in schools. It's also the hardest to schedule in week 4-10. It's also easier to matchup big/small schools (ie: New Riegel vs. Anthony Wayne and Columbian) in basketball and volleyball. You can't do that in football.

[strykerblue]

Another meeting today (or tonight) among MAL administrators....anyone hear what is on the agenda or what may come out of the meeting

[strykerblue]

Another forum reporting SMCC will have announce their intentions by end of week....they may be coming to MAL....Hank, have you heard this yet?

[Hank_Hill]

Rumblings...I just have a very hard time believing they would step into a league with five football playing schools, one being North Baltimore, which is on the other side of the earth from Sandusky. They would be crazy to leave the SBC and step into a situation as unstable as the MAL right now. There would have to be more than just SMCC in play.

I'd also have to think NB is in play for a BVC spot if they do indeed expand.

[strykerblue]

Well, SMCC is officially staying in SBC so they are out of play...MAL admin had a meeting yesterday...anyone know what came of that....is there a plan to save the league?

[Hank_Hill]

I'm pretty sure it's dead....if Calvert, NB and H-L don't get into the BVC you might see the remaining five football playing team just schedule each other. In fact, they'll basically have to.

[strykerblue]

Hank, I heard the same thing. Basically that the MAL is just hoping BVC does not take any of their schools so MAL can remain a 9 team league (maybe 8 soon with Bettsville on life support). The football schools would have work to do with schedule but in other sports they could play home and away like in the old days. Potential wrench may be the Northern 10.....with Crestline opting to go to smaller league with Mansfield-Marion teams and Riverdale sniffing BVC maybe Calvert and/or HL ask N10 about letting them in? MAL is at other leagues mercy at this point

[Grantland]

http://www.sent-trib.com/high-school-sports/lakota-sends-letter-of-interest-to-taac-07-05-12

Lakota and Fremont St. Joe have both sent letters of inquiry to the TAAC

[Grantland]

http://http://www.thecourier.com/Issues/2012/Jul/25/ar_sports_072512_story4.asp?d=072512_story4,2012,J ul,25&c=s


Kevin Shields of the Fremont News-Messenger confirmed at today's meeting that both #Lakota and #SJCC (Fremont St. Joe's) have sent letters of interest to the #TAAC

[BD6372]

I hope for their sake that they get in the TAAC, that would leave only Calvert (football playing schools) without a home. What will OF, NR and Bettsville do? It will be hard to schedule a 22 game independent Basketball schedule. The MAL appears to be dead for certain after the 2013-14 season.

[Knite Flyer]

It's really not all that hard to fill a 20 (you don't have to play 22, or even 20, for that matter) game hoops slate. NR will have little problems getting dates, they are good, and aren't afraid to schedule up. OF and even Bettsville can fill dates, but all 3 may have to travel a bit more.

They would still be able to play all 9 of the MAL schools "leaving," as they also will have dates to fill. Some games (more than "normal") might have to be played on weeknights, but they'll get their allotment of games.

[BD6372]

It's really not all that hard to fill a 20 (you don't have to play 22, or even 20, for that matter) game hoops slate. NR will have little problems getting dates, they are good, and aren't afraid to schedule up. OF and even Bettsville can fill dates, but all 3 may have to travel a bit more.

They would still be able to play all 9 of the MAL schools "leaving," as they also will have dates to fill. Some games (more than "normal") might have to be played on weeknights, but they'll get their allotment of games. Why would you want to schedule the teams that left you for dead? If you wanted to play the old MAL schools, you could also schedule most of the BVC and NBC, as well as some N10 schools. So you're probably correct, other than playing more weekday games you could probably work out the schedule. But once teams started playing their Conference schedule then NR, OF, and Bettsville would have problems finding Friday night games.

[Grantland]

August 7th was the date sited that the TAAC would be having a league meeting does anyone have any contacts involved with this meeting?

[strykerblue]

No vote on expansion was taken at TAAC meeting last week as Lakota was only school who formally applied...SJCC did not send in their paperwork yet and TAAC will not look at expanding unless they have 2 schools. Rumor has it SJCC and Calvert are trying one last ditch effort to keep MAL together...SMCC and Margaretta are listening and Gibsonburg and Danbury are being courted as well. Lakota will stay if they keep MAL afloat too. They are trying to schedule a meeting soon as if this falls through then SJCC may formally apply to TAAC with Lakota. Who really knows anymore?

[BigTenBuckeye]

No vote on expansion was taken at TAAC meeting last week as Lakota was only school who formally applied...SJCC did not send in their paperwork yet and TAAC will not look at expanding unless they have 2 schools. Rumor has it SJCC and Calvert are trying one last ditch effort to keep MAL together...SMCC and Margaretta are listening and Gibsonburg and Danbury are being courted as well. Lakota will stay if they keep MAL afloat too. They are trying to schedule a meeting soon as if this falls through then SJCC may formally apply to TAAC with Lakota. Who really knows anymore?

I'd hate to see more league shuffling go on, but the way things have gone down, too many are getting left out. There definitely needs to be a smaller-sized school league for that area and if something like this takes place, I think it'd be great for all involved. SMCC, Margaretta, Gibsonburg, Danbury, SJCC, Lakota, Calvert, and another would be a great small-school football league setup, plus the four of Old Fort, Bettsville, New Riegel, and St. Wendelin to round it out for the other sports. Obviously this would subtract from other leagues, but I don't feel like trying to sort out those hypotheticals yet. I'd just like to see everyone that wants a league home to have one.

[fourthandone]

If I'm Calvert and St. Joe, I lobby hard (I know the diocese is in favor) to team up with Norwalk St. Paul and SMCC. If you can convince those two, to me, Monroeville and Margaretta are the next two targets.

A base of Calvert, SJCC, SMCC, NSP, Margaretta and Monroeville is solid. That group might get the attention of others. Lakota makes it seven schools and you need just one more. I'd think at least three schools would have significant interest at that point for the eighth spot.

I think you could make arguments both ways for Monroeville and NSP staying in the Fireland or joining a group like this. I doubt you could pry the two away, but if I am them I at least listen.

[sandeyagons]

What about getting a school like Arcadia to leave the BVC. The location seems to fit and the BVC seems to be elevating its already competitive league. I just think they fit nice in a Calvert, StJoe's...ect type league. Willard seems like another good fit.

[strykerblue]

I like the St Paul and Monroeville idea and I have always thought Arcadia fit better with MAL than BVC as they have trouble competing in most boys sports. We will see what happens as the clock is ticking on MAL right now.

[fourthandone]

Arcadia does not fit into a geography with SMCC, Margaretta, SJCC, etc. I think North Baltimore was somewhat of a sticking point back when the MAL was speaking with those two schools due to travel.

If Lakota, SJCC and Calvert can't scrape something together, and quick, their football options are going to get ugly. One could well get left in the cold if the TAAC does indeed expand.

Being the southern most of the three, I suppose Calvert could always petition to take Troy Christian's spot in the NWCC if worse came to worse for football. It wouldn't be any different than playing an independent schedule, which is what they are facing.

[BigTenBuckeye]

I think you could make arguments both ways for Monroeville and NSP staying in the Fireland or joining a group like this. I doubt you could pry the two away, but if I am them I at least listen.

I think the rest of the Firelands would be alright if that happened too, likely pairing up with the 5 Mid-Buckeye Conference schools (Only Lucas, Loudonville, and Danville will have football out of those 5).

[Grantland]

If I'm Calvert and St. Joe, I lobby hard (I know the diocese is in favor) to team up with Norwalk St. Paul and SMCC. If you can convince those two, to me, Monroeville and Margaretta are the next two targets.

A base of Calvert, SJCC, SMCC, NSP, Margaretta and Monroeville is solid. That group might get the attention of others. Lakota makes it seven schools and you need just one more. I'd think at least three schools would have significant interest at that point for the eighth spot.

I think you could make arguments both ways for Monroeville and NSP staying in the Fireland or joining a group like this. I doubt you could pry the two away, but if I am them I at least listen.

Your response has some merit, but it requires 3 other conferences to take a hit on their membership for it to work. assuming that if Danbury (earlier post stated that Danbury was a target) was to leave the TAAC to go to this new league and that Lakota would stay and not jump to the Taac to replace Danbury.

I doubt the TAAC would take all 3, but a 11 school football league is doable (not advocating one way or the other)

[strykerblue]

Maybe Calvert, SJCC and Lakota have a better shot at getting SMCC and Margaretta to listen to them this time around....on another forum site SBC schools are starting to get "ouchy" about SMCC and Margaretta low numbers for football. SMCC only has 27 kids total playing and Margaretta maybe 33 or so. SMCC has no JV or freshman teams so that is another date to fill on schedules plus gates are lousy. Both schools only fielding one combined jr high team this year too so that hurts as well. With Huron, Clyde, Perkins and OH having 50-60 kids playing not counting freshman there is no way for the little guys to compete anymore as their class sizes continue to shrink.

[Village Idiot]

Interesting, stryker. I still wouldn't think that St. Mary or Margaretta would jump at the chance to join a five-team football league, but knowing that there is some external pressure from the rest of the SBC that could put one of both of them into play is something that wasn't being discussed (actually, it was downplayed) over the past couple of years.

But, if one could shake SMCC loose, and from the discussion on the other board, they seem to be the school in the most danger, and one could put an interesting joint-proposal to the TAAC. TAAC-West: Edon, Hilltop, Ottawa Hills, Toledo Christian, Cardinal Stritch, Northwood; TAAC-East: Gibsonburg, Lakota, Tiffin Calvert, Fremont St. Joseph, Danbury, Sandusky St. Mary. Two divisions of six, play five division games, plus a home and an away, cross-division game, so only one road trip across the divide for each team. In sports other than football, replace Edon and Hilltop with Emmanuel Christian, Maumee Valley, New Riegel, Old Fort, Fostoria St. Wendelin, and Bettsville for a reasonable 15 league opponents for basketball, volleyball, softball, and baseball.

Of course, the SBC wouldn't want to get caught holding the bag with seven. Which is why they have to carefully balance their positions to either have two leave at the same time, or immediately have a replacement. Which probably explains why SBC-school-backers have generally stood up for the viability of SMCC to the outside world. Now that there is a second school with numbers issues, they can start poking a little harder.

[IndiansRock]

Margaretta actually has teams at the 7th, 8th, 9th, jv, and varsity levels this year. Their varsity roster the other night had around 40 kids in grades 10-12.

[strykerblue]

Other forum indicating SMCC may have something to say before end of calendar year.....also some indicating MAL remaining football schools may be involved as well. May not be the MAL in name but at least they would have a place to go. I would hope NR and OF would be allowed in as non-football members too if something materializes. Could get interesting again.

[Village Idiot]

There is an awful lot of scuttlebutt happening on another forum about meetings of area D5 and D6 schools. There seems to be a lot of smoke being raised in several different districts.

I hope if this happening, that people are talking to each other and try to soften the landings for all involved (versus N10- or NBC-like shenanigans). I'm hoping that, if all of this is going on, that some concept similar to the one in my 8/27 post is the overall direction. Something that scoops up the pieces with one or two somewhat larger leagues, instead of "I've got my eight, now you three conferences scramble to fill in your spots."

[Hank_Hill]

I think SMCC, Margaretta, Woodmore and Elmwood are starting to see that from at least a football prospective, things aren't and won't work out. I knot that those schools (can't confirm Elmwood though) along with Danbury and the remaining MAL schools have met recently.

This could start more dominos.

[Hank_Hill]

One other thought.....I wonder if this new MAL cones about if anyone changes their mind about leaving....remember, at least one school leaving had extremely split support for the move and another had big reservations.

[strykerblue]

Hank, you talking HL as I know a few of their coaches wanted to stay in MAL but football rules all. I heard AD really pushed it and even tried to get coaches who wanted to stay to vote to leave for BVC so he could say it was unanimous among coaches. Several refused to do so. That would be interesting if they snub the mighty BVC.

[BD6372]

One other thought.....I wonder if this new MAL cones about if anyone changes their mind about leaving....remember, at least one school leaving had extremely split support for the move and another had big reservations. Was Mohawk the school with reservations about leaving the MAL? I doubt that Hopewell-Louden will change their mind, the BVC is actually a pretty good place for them to be now that they're already in there. I don't know about Seneca East except that the N10 has some close schools for travel and natural rivalries. Carey's administration pushed their move through to the N10 with little or no in put from the community (who most favored staying in the MAL over a move to the N10) If a move for Carey had to be made the majority of people favored a move to the BVC.

[strykerblue]

Mohawk should reconsider as they will NOT be competitive in boys sports in N10...girls will be ok for awhile as they have some good classes up there now...SE will have losing records in most sports in N10 too other than CC and track but these guys made theirs beds so now they can sleep in them.

[Hank_Hill]

Carey was the only school to have their board vote unanimously I believe. Mohawk and SE were both 3-2. I think there is a lot of people at H-L not on board with the BVC, but given no other option....well, they took it.

I think there's going to be another round of movement by the end of the year.

[BD6372]

Carey was the only school to have their board vote unanimously I believe. Mohawk and SE were both 3-2. I think there is a lot of people at H-L not on board with the BVC, but given no other option....well, they took it.

I think there's going to be another round of movement by the end of the year. You are correct, Carey's board did approve the move 5-0, but I don't know why as most of the town's reaction was "Why are we doing that?" I agree with Stryker's opinion that at least for the near future Mohawk will not be competitive in boy's sports. I think Seneca East can win games in football, probably about like they do in the MAL, most years miiddle of the pack type teams. Carey will go into the N10 with what should be their best team since maybe 1994 but that's assuming that the sophmore class they have now continues to develop. They also in addition to a pretty good varsity this year (lot of sophmores playing) have unbeaten JV and unbeaten 8th grade teams so short term (next 4-5 years) they'll be ok, long term we'll see. I hope the remainder of the MAL can put together a good group for a new league or are able to join an established league where they can compete evenly. I still would have liked Carey in the BVC if they had to leave the MAL, we've played most of the N10 in the past and with the exception of Wynford ther's not much to get excited about.

[scutch]

Who says Mohawk wont be competive you have personal knowledge of what all the teams in the new N10 has in there schools.

[BD6372]

Who says Mohawk wont be competive you have personal knowledge of what all the teams in the new N10 has in there schools. You're right, I have no idea what these teams with the exception of Carey will have in 2 years. I keep forgetting that the move is not until 2014, Mohawk can have their football team turned around by then. As for wrestling and girls sports Mohawk will always be competitive. I was thinking just football and how Mohawk has played the last 2 seasons. I don't see a great Mohawk team coming in the next few years but to say that they won't be competitive probably is not a fair statement. Mohawk up until the last couple season has been an area power in football and to think that they won't get back to that level in the future is not realistic. They are well coached and play extremely hard and have played Wynford pretty tough over the years. Why has Mohawk's enrollment gone down so much the past 4-5 years? They were in the past always slightly bigger than Carey and now they are much smaller (by about 30 boys)

[strykerblue]

Mohawk an area football power?? Did I miss all the playoff runs they went on? Yeah, they won a couple league titles but HL is the only MAL team you could say has been an area power with several deep playoff runs. Carey has been good in the league but not much playoff success either. Mohawk hoops have not been good either for that matter. Girls sports are really good though.

[BD6372]

Mohawk an area football power?? Did I miss all the playoff runs they went on? Yeah, they won a couple league titles but HL is the only MAL team you could say has been an area power with several deep playoff runs. Carey has been good in the league but not much playoff success either. Mohawk hoops have not been good either for that matter. Girls sports are really good though. I'll rephrase that to they were an MAL power, but they were putting out good football teams for quite a few years with the last couple years being the exception. Carey has won a state championship and been to the semifinals another time just not in the last few years. Carey also has the highest winning % all time in the MAL with Fremont St. Joe 2nd, your only MAL football power H-L is 3rd barely ahead of Mohawk. When your talking football power there's something to be said for consistancy not great one year and bad the next.

[strykerblue]

So....anything more on future of the MAL for the teams that are not going to BVC or N10? Some other threads on other forums indicate there is some activity but nothing formal to be announced on the horizon. Anybody have anything in this regard? Hank Hill...where have you been, you usually have some information to share.

[Hank_Hill]

Somethings going to happen before x-mas break.....could be an earthquake, could be a small tremor.

[strykerblue]

I have heard again that HL and SE could be a part of a new league trying to be formed with the MAL football schools and SMCC/Marg...next month or so could be interesting...NR and OF may be tagging along as well. HL may not have left if they thought they had a choice.

[oldscl]

Stryker, I agree on the note that Hopewell may not have voted to leave if there was another option to stay with the old SCL and MAL schools. I am not sure about Seneca East but their vote was rather close too (school board) from what i remember.

[Hank_Hill]

I would say there's between 2-4 scenarios on the table being looked at right now

[strykerblue]

Big meeting Jan 4th....smcc,marg,lakota,calvert,sjcc all in with NR/OF in as non football schools....7 invites went out to others as these schools hoping to get 3 more football schools to join them to make 8 team football league with 10 in all other sports. Anyone else hear something like this and any of the other teams that may be interested?

[BigTenBuckeye]

I'll be paying attention to see how this affects other leagues, like the TAAC, NBC, and the SBC. I have a feeling the NOL-SBC merger would likely happen and that some schools will shuffle around the leagues I mentioned. I have to believe that Woodmore, Gibsonburg, and Elmwood got invites, and that invitations were also extended to North Baltimore and Hopewell-Loudon. Possibly Northwood as well to gauge an interest. Was Bettsville completely ignored out of concern they wouldn't field teams or did they get an invite?

For pure speculation, I could see the NOL-SBC merger going down, Woodmore and Elmwood leaving the NBC, and them being replaced by Oak Harbor and Port Clinton. I'm not saying that's for certain because I'm sure their SBC relationships matter to them, but 2 leagues merging (as they both recently discussed) could cause some to say "I don't want to travel as far." Plus, Oak Harbor was an SLL school with many NBC schools once. But with all of the realignment, who knows how anything will go. I am glad though, that a league will be there for those that were losing out on expansion and re-shuffling.

[CaughtinLimbo]

Maumee maybe the next school into the NBC and this is all another big domino to fall.

[ajm23t]

Sounds like Bettsville and St. Wendelin will be left out of everything.Is there no solidarity with old loyalties anymore. Sure Bettsville has number problems in all sports but St. Wendelin usually has good numbers in basketball and spring sports unless that is changing.

[strykerblue]

Bettsville will not even be around in a couple years and they have not had girls varsity teams in some sports for awhile now....boys hoop team has to be an all time worst (even for Bettsville) this year...not sure about spring sports this year either. They are not competitive, bring no crowds to the games and facilities are subpar.Schools have to look out for number one right now or they will be left out in the cold. SW may choose to play in that Christian League that they play football in now....their enrollment also dropping a lot lately. Lower grades especially and St Mike's is not sending the same numbers to them annually either as those kids are going to LB, VB or Findlay High School now.

[scutch]

What are calvert and St.Joes numbers look like cant think there numbers are that good either.

[the_show]

Calvert's enrollment has gone up 75 in the last two years, thankfully. Really has started to turn around. Can't speak for St. Joe. No idea what their numbers are like.

[Grantland]

Maumee maybe the next school into the NBC and this is all another big domino to fall.

what reason, makes you think that Maumee would leave the NLL for the NBC?

[CaughtinLimbo]

It's enrollment numbers have been shrinking as well as just like Rossford the district is very land locked. Dont forget that Maumee was asked to join when fostoria joined the NBC . But all I can say for sure is that between this and the city league looking for 2 more schools to add there could be a major shuffling of the deck and one of the scenarios leaves the TRAC with 5 football playing schools.

[BigTenBuckeye]

http://www.toledoblade.com/frontpage/2010/07/19/New-frontier-ahead-for-area-leagues.html

Maumee, a charter member (1956) of the NLL, actually considered pulling out of that league within the last year with the perceived intention of joining the new NBC. But the Maumee school board voted 3-2 to retain its NLL membership.

I remember this as well. Before Rossford left the NLL it was constantly discussed how landlocked their district was and they weren't able to have the growth that the others had. The same concern was brought up about Maumee, although they consistently remained in D2 while Rossford fluctuated between D3 and D4.

I don't know that Maumee's enrollment will ever be as significantly small as Rossford's was in the NLL, but I would think as long as they're bigger than Napoleon, they'll keep that NLL tradition going. Although if they did leave, the NBC already has 5 former NLL members, so that would make some sense...:)

[CaughtinLimbo]

Try this. All that is left of the old Great Northern Conference, GLL and NLL, is the NLL. Thus of the 8 NBC schools all but Woodmore and Otsego are the only ones not in some way tied to the GNC or NLL.

[BigTenBuckeye]

I also wondered if those old relationships still mattered or not. Like when Rossford teamed up with the former SLL schools, was it relevant that Eastwood, Elmwood, Genoa, and Lake were old league-mates of theirs, or were they just happy there was another school nearby close to their size? I'd like to think the communities found it somewhat relevant, but I'm not sure how many care about that kind of history. I like that "fraternity" everyone has with each other with the GNC/NLL/GLL, kinda like: "oh yeah, we go way back."

[CaughtinLimbo]

It wouldn't surprise me if they are all tired together some how.

[ajm23t]

Will anyone have info on the MAL meeting that is supposed to be today? Will effect a lot of leagues if anything really happens.Can understand where St. Mary's stands on this as they are just getting too small. Will have to travel a lot farther in new league.Don't understand Margaretta's thinking though as they are not that much smaller than most. Clyde and Perkins I realize are outgrowing the league. Maybe they should be the ones moving.(NOL)

[BigTenBuckeye]

Was told that St. Paul was contacted by and turned down an invitation from this new league, and that North Baltimore did not attend any meeting of this sort today.

[strykerblue]

Meeting going on right now probably....smcc, marg, sjcc, calvert, lakota, NR and OF should be there for sure....invites also went to SE, Danbury, Gburg, Woodmore, Elmwood, HL and Northwood and a few at least should be in attendance....SE I think indicated they were not coming not sure about others but Danbury and Gburg were to be there and I bet HL showed up too. Anyone please feel free to correct me as these "facts" are not certain...also let us know if anyone is privvy to what came out of the meeting today. I was told that most were hoping some sort of announcement would be possible after the meeting today.

[CaughtinLimbo]

This could get very interesting now

[BigTenBuckeye]

http://mobile.coveritlive.com/mobile.php/option=com_mobile/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=5422e176ea

Kevin Shields from the Fremont News Messenger tweeting that a meeting did take place and that there were reports of SMCC, Margaretta, AND Oak Harbor looking to leave the SBC.

[BigTenBuckeye]

Anybody by chance going to the Margaretta Athletic Booster Club meeting tonight?

From: http://www.margaretta.k12.oh.us/

ATHLETIC CONFERENCE AFFILIATION UPDATE
The Margaretta Athletic Booster Club meeting will take place in the high school cafeteria on Monday, January 7, at 7:00 p.m. At this meeting, the administration will give an update of Margaretta's future conference affiliation. Parents of all grade levels and community members are encouraged to attend.

Seems like the closest update we'll be getting on the subject.

[jackson2012]

Courier Sports tweeted that H-L might back out of their commitment to the BVC, leaving them at 11 schools and in a vind.

Also, Kevin Shields of the N-M tweeted that Old Fort, Margaretta, SMCC, and Lakota are four schools for a new league called the Sandusky Rivers League.

[BigTenBuckeye]

Still not sure why the BVC wanted to expand, their current setup seemed like it was working just fine for them. Maybe there's something inside I don't know about.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%40SRHazelwood&src=typd

Mark Hazelwood saying one of the 1-3 others interested is an SBC school. The first I had heard of Oak Harbor interested in leaving was through Kevin Shields, but I'm guessing that's them? I have to believe this league reaches that total of 8 football, 10 overall, but I don't know why others are staying quiet on it, just causes issues down the road.