End of the Herbstreit Classic?

[Eric Frantz]

JJHuddle's Ohio HS Insider

http://www.jjhuddle.com/news/articles/2011/5/11/ohio-hs-insider-herbstreit-classic-done-74-percent-of-schools-dont-want-change-and-more

[thePITman]

I love this quote!
As one educator put it: “It’s ludicrous. You’re (bleeping) with children’s education in order to get more people to spend money.”

[rmolin73]

Yeah this will defintely not fly this character has no clue how much Ohions like high school football.

[NewarkCatholicFan]

Let him take this event to Tenn with him.

[Moose73]

It, the bill, will never happen.... maybe....

That would mean that, as an example, high school bands would not be permitted - by law - to participate in patriotic parades or events on Memorial Day, July 4th, or Labor Day. This is ludicrous and I doubt it will ever get to the floor for a vote.

[flash12]

Hayes is a tool.

[chachi43950]

I love the "Shadyside is not the public school champion" quote. You won't see such arrogant fans as some of Shadyside's after they got walloped by 71 points in the state championship game. Walking around calling themselves "Public School Champions"

[manowar]

Why is everyone so hard on Shadyside???

They did win their region, and then beat another region champ to get to the title game.

Sometimes games just get away from a team...and sometimes you run into a team that causes you severe matchup problems, but that doesn't mean that just because Team X only lost to St John's by so many points that they would automatically beat Shadyside. Football is a game of matchups.

[chachi43950]

I think the dislike for Shadyside is how arrogant some of their fans are and especially the coaching staff. The way a few of them acted after getting their asses handed to them by Delphos St. John's was very childish and unprofessional. Especially from the one who was a failure as a head coach at Bellaire. It did not sit well with a lot of the state outside of the Ohio Valley.

[HistoryBuff]

It, the bill, will never happen.... maybe....

That would mean that, as an example, high school bands would not be permitted - by law - to participate in patriotic parades or events on Memorial Day, July 4th, or Labor Day. This is ludicrous and I doubt it will ever get to the floor for a vote.

That is not exactly the case. The bill says nothing about school events taking place anytime OTHER than Labor Day weekend.

Sec. 3313.621, article (D) states that: “No school district board shall agree to or permit a school under its control to participate in any extracurricular events on Friday through Monday of the Labor day weekend. This prohibition shall not apply to any district or school that has an agreement with another district or school or with an athletic association or conference, entered into prior to the effective date of this section, that requires participation in extracurricular events on that weekend. However, the district board shall not enter into a new agreement or renew an expiring agreement on or after the effective date of this section that requires participation in extracurricular events on that weekend.”.


So, it appears that sport teams who's seasons don't end by Memorial Day would be able to keep playing. (if not, the Spring State Championships would have to be moved up which would further shorten the spring seasons.). The bill would not prohibit fall teams from starting practices, games, etc. prior to Labor day. It just prohibits classes prior to Labor Day. Otherwise, football season is completely doomed in Ohio.... can you imagine not being able to start practices until after Labor Day? Football games would not even begin until the first of October!

BUT, the key to the statement is "school under its control to participate in any extracurricular events," Does this include practices?? I would say yes since it says "events" instead of "contests." So no football practice from Friday through Monday! (the football coaches in the audience probably just passed out....)

I suggest you read the Lancaster Eagle Gazette Article... it tells more of the story. The group actually behind this bill is amusement park industry in Ohio and specifically Cedar Fair (Cedar Fair owns Kings Island, Cedar Point and whats left of Geauga Lake). One of their exectutives is even quoted in the article saying that August should be returned to families. That is why they want Labor Day weekend cleared of school events.

What they, and the bills sponsor are missing is the fact that this bill won't do much to return August to familes. School sport practices will still begin the first week of August (with conditionings before that). Golf and Tennis seasons start contests in early August to get their seasons in . Volleyball & Soccer also start games prior to Labor Day for the same reason. And as Eric's article points out.. it will be Week 2 of the football season in jeopardy. The kids in sports will still be involved unless you want to deystroy fall sports and move their practice start dates back until after Labor Day. (which would be a disaster).

You won't stop kids from competing on Labor Day weekend... you have now just opened up another weekend for the travel programs in all sports to play. (and those are more time consuming than high school events.) Those teams also would love the state to put an end to spring sports before Memorial day... more time for them to get tournaments in. Cedar Fair and the State Rep have no clue when they think it is high school teams that cause the problem they perceive.

Finally, shutting down of high school events on Labor Day weekend may help the tourism industry at the loss for schools and communities. What does a football Friday mean finanacialy? Alot for some communities. Restaurants do a brisk business before and after these games, school groups make money off of at game concessions and school athletic departments make money off gate revenues. These events are important to the communities and that is more imporant than Cedar Point squeezing a few more dollars out of Ohioians. How much would Columbus/Franklin County lose in restaurant business, hotel business and other revenue if the Herbstreit Classic is cancelled? Let's hurt the mom and pop local businesses for the sake of Cedar Point.

This bill is a disaster for school districts, athletic programs, local communities, athletes and high school sports fans. It is a terrible idea for everyone except Cedar Fair and the other tourism operations. It doesn't increase the amount of money being brought into the state for tourism....it just redistributes the money already in the economy from local/school groups to for profit entities looking to make an extra buck. The tourism industry should be looking at ways to BRING people to Ohio to spend money...oh wait... the Herbstreit Classic did that but it will have to go.

Here is the link to the Lancaster Eagle Gazette Article: http://www.lancastereaglegazette.com/article/20110429/NEWS01/104290307/Bill-seeks-change-school-calendar

(why have no MAJOR Ohio newspapers put out an article on this?)

[HistoryBuff]

And if you don't believe this is simply a tool of the Amusement park industy: Why just shut down sports for Labor Day weekend?? Why not Martin Luther King weekend in honor of him? What about a period around Christmas or Thanksgiving weekend? Why not Memorial Day weekend or Easter weekend? If this happens I can the push for other weekends down the pike.

[chachi43950]

just don't go to any amusement park etc that weekend - speak with you wallets! F Cedar Point!

[Walking Boss]

...(why have no MAJOR Ohio newspapers put out an article on this?)

IMHO, it is because the bill is so freaking absurb it doesn't even warrant a mention on page 20, below the fold, of the Mayberry News. It is so preposteriously stupid, that it shouldn't be dignified by a serious journalistic report.

[Webko]

History Buff.....well said. I'm assuming the bill not mentioned in some of the larger papers is because that it does not have any teeth or traction. I'm glad that this discussion topic was mentioned. Well done.

[dbarnian]

This event used to be one of the best HS football events in the country back when national powerhouses from CA, FL, and TX were playing in it. Now honestly it's terrible. The Glenville, and Pick Central games are both great games but the other game are awful. I'll never forget watching Colerain vs Hoover, Moeller vs that CA team, and Elder beating independence (NC) to end their streak of 119 straight games won. This event will be done after this season and it should be.

[Webko]

I don't understand the haters to this event. I have watch this over the years and was always proud of the Ohio teams. It's an opportunity to shine. I hope the event gains momentum. I enjoyed the games last year and definitely looking forward to the games this year. It's a great weekend of football.
I'm a little selfish about the event. It's been a great way for the Pickerington kids to start the season. It's neat that a little DI school like Pick Central Central gets the opportunity to play a great program like St. X in this venue. The kids love playing at the Shoe. Your guarenteed a great seat.
Last year, I loved watching Glennville sneak the game out, and PC winning against a good VA team. It was a great day with a lot of excitement. I know not all the other games were fantastic, but there were some great match ups.
I want this event to thrive and will continue to support it as long as the kids enjoy playing at the Shoe.
Don't you remember as a kid being able to play in a big venue? I got the shot one time in PA, and to this day never forgot it. I would hope we want to have created some great memories for the kids in the future.

[Walking Boss]

Webbie: I don't disagree that it is still a good event, but it has definitely been watered down from the early years of the event. If you go the history section of the Herbie Website, it is pretty incredible the matchups they used to get. I think when you combine the diminished national scale of the matchups with Herbie's exodus from Columbus and it is only natural that some are going to start writing obits for it.

Maybe they just need to contract back to one day & two games. Make it a Saturday so teams are less worried about the days off. As much as I'll enjoy watching UA and Springfield, it is sort of out-of-place in this event given the rich history of matchups. Just my two cents.

[1iluvfootball]

This event used to be one of the best HS football events in the country back when national powerhouses from CA, FL, and TX were playing in it. Now honestly it's terrible. The Glenville, and Pick Central games are both great games but the other game are awful. I'll never forget watching Colerain vs Hoover, Moeller vs that CA team, and Elder beating independence (NC) to end their streak of 119 straight games won. This event will be done after this season and it should be.

You are right on about the Hoover V Colerain game. The best High School football game I ever watched. We were jumping up and down. A almost packed Nippert Stadium, awesome. Hoover puts on a great show, one of the best bands and flinger corp I ever heard and saw.

[thePITman]

This event used to be one of the best HS football events in the country back when national powerhouses from CA, FL, and TX were playing in it. Now honestly it's terrible. The Glenville, and Pick Central games are both great games but the other game are awful. I'll never forget watching Colerain vs Hoover, Moeller vs that CA team, and Elder beating independence (NC) to end their streak of 119 straight games won. This event will be done after this season and it should be.
I, too, went to the first few years of this event. It was awesome and a blast and exactly what it was meant to be. But over the years, it's gone downhill, and I don't see it lasting much longer. There definitely were some great games, though, between the likes of Lakeland, Colerain, St. Xavier, Elder, Independence, Byrnes, Moeller, De La Salle, etc.

[DoverArmy]

Were the games not played in stark county at first? Maybe this is a look at the future, with the championship games moving to C-BUS! Great football games always, in NE O-H-I-O!!!!

[1iluvfootball]

The first year was at Crew Stadium. The second year was at Stark and Cinn. The third year was at Stark and Cinn. The Second year had a great program, I still have it.

[DoverArmy]

You want people to come back to the herby challenge? Pick up the DI vs DV defending champs as they square off this year. I understand the DV team doesn't travel all that well, but any true football fan from around the state will come out to watch this game.....

[Webko]

Webbie: I don't disagree that it is still a good event, but it has definitely been watered down from the early years of the event. If you go the history section of the Herbie Website, it is pretty incredible the matchups they used to get. I think when you combine the diminished national scale of the matchups with Herbie's exodus from Columbus and it is only natural that some are going to start writing obits for it.
Maybe they just need to contract back to one day & two games. Make it a Saturday so teams are less worried about the days off. As much as I'll enjoy watching UA and Springfield, it is sort of out-of-place in this event given the rich history of matchups. Just my two cents.

I like and respect most of your posts. I also think you have some depth with your knowledge of h.s football. Unfortunately, I think your opinion on this stinks and is more feeling based. I think many share your opinion on this too.
I guess I don't see or "feel" the venue as being "watered down." I think when you say watered down you are saying there are not any Cinci teams involved. If that is your reasoning then you are right. If playing Ohio v. Ohio teams is watered down then you may also be right. But I kind of liked some of the match ups over the years.

Again, I really think of the venue of playing at the Shoe or at Cowboy Stadium in Texas as a huge deal for 1000's of kids' memories. Not every game is going to be the best game for the venue, but man o' man there's been some great games in this series too.

Now, I think you could list teams annually that would put on a pretty good show whether playing each other or playing an OOS team. Some of my "opinion" hit list would be from Cinci like X, Moe, Elder, Colerain, Anderson. I also like the Glennville, Eds, Solon, Mentor, McKinely from the North. PC, HD, DC, WS, Spring, or Desales from the Central, and even a Youngstown Mooney or Stuebenville throw their hat in the ring. I think year in and out these teams can be competitive.

What games do you feel are watered down this year?
I would enjoy the OOS games too, but I look at last year's games was pretty impressed with the outcomes being pretty close.

Here's some Herbie history per your statement: The Texas games look like blowouts annually. The Ohio games look like a couple of blowouts each year, mixed with some great games.

2010
Ohio
Westerville South 31 Dublin Coffman 21
Canton McKinley 26 Huber Heights Wayne 0
Cleveland Glenville 26 William T. Dwyer 22
Pickerington Central 36 Oscar F. Smith 20
Texas
Trinity 80 Shiloh Christian 26
St. Thomas Aquinas 31 Skyline 3
Cedar Hill 42 Denton Guyer 41
DeSoto 49 Arlington-Bowie 21
2009
Columbus, OH – Saturday August 29th, 2009
St. Thomas Aquinas 52 Upper Arlington 7
Hilliard Davidson 21 Westerville South 20
Columbus, OH – Sunday August 30th, 2009
Dublin Coffman 52 Olentangy Liberty 0
Pickerington Central 28 Orange Lutheran 14
Arlington, TX - Monday September 7th, 2009
Trinity 42 Bingham 21
Colleyville Heritage 28 Irving MacArthur 6
Mansfield Timberview 30 Mansfield Summit 19
Notre Dame 37 Klein Oak 7

2008
Cincinnati – Saturday August 30th, 2008
St. Thomas Aquinas 35 Elder 24
Warren Central 39 Middletown 35
Colerain 14 McKeesport 7 OT
St. Xavier 15 Prattville 10
Cincinnati – Sunday August 31st, 2008
Montgomery Bell 21 Moeller 6
Huber Heights Wayne 20 East St. Louis 12
St. Rita 28 Lakota West 21
Canton - August 30th, 2008
lein Forest 27 Warren Howland 6
Cathedral 34 Canton 13
Cardinal Mooney 57 Covington 0
Jordan 27 Massillon 24
Irving, Texas - Saturday August 30th, 2008
Buford 42 Mansfield 21
Cedar Hill 38 La Salle 14
Justin 13 Woodland Hills 12
Arlington 48 Trotwood-Madison 0
Trinity 28 John Curtis 12
Klein Oak * Mandeville *
*Canceled due to Hurricane Gustav
Colleyville Heritage 41 Clovis East 26

2007
Nippert Stadium, University of Cincinnati - 8/31 and 9/1, 2007
Indianapolis Cathedral, IN 7 Cincinnati La Salle, OH 6
Cincinnati Colerain, OH 20 Hoover, AL 17(OT)
Cincinnati Moeller, OH 22 Mission Viejo, CA
*Forfeit for ineligible player 26
Cincinnati Elder, OH 41 Charlotte Independence, NC 34(OT)
Cincinnati St. Xavier 38 De Matha, MD 7
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 34 Northmont, OH 6
Highlands, KY 24 Trotwood-Madison, OH 20

Fawcett Stadium at the Pro Football HOF, Canton, OH - 8/31, 2007
Buford, GA 34 Grove City, OH 7
Long Beach Poly, CA 21 Cleveland Glenville, OH 13
Cardinal Mooney, OH 27 Gateway, PA 6
Union, OK 31 Canton McKinley 0

2006
Nippert Stadium, University of Cincinnati – Sept 15 & 16, 2006

Texas High, TX 44 Findlay, OH 21
Cincinnati Colerain,OH 28 Cardinal O’Hara, PA 0
Byrnes, SC 21 Cincinnati Moeller, OH 20
Lakeland, FL 25 Cincinnati St. Xavier, OH 22(OT)
Don Bosco Prep, NJ 21 Centerville, OH 0
De La Salle, CA 56 Elder, OH 38

Paul Brown Stadium, Massillon, OH – September 16, 2006

Hilliard Davidson, OH 17 St. Joseph’s Prep, PA 14
Lakewood St. Edward 49 Springdale, AK 3
Massillon Washington 35 Hamilton, AZ 26

2005
Columbus Crew Stadium, Columbus, OH - September 9, 2005

Cincinnati Colerain 27 Tyler Lee 12
Westerville North 14 Westerville South 10

Byrnes, SC 21 Cincinnati Moeller, OH 20
Lakeland, FL 25 Cincinnati St. Xavier, OH 22(OT)
Don Bosco Prep, NJ 21 Centerville, OH 0
De La Salle, CA 56 Elder, OH 38

Paul Brown Stadium, Massillon, OH – September 16, 2006

Hilliard Davidson, OH 17 St. Joseph’s Prep, PA 14
Lakewood St. Edward 49 Springdale, AK 3
Massillon Washington 35 Hamilton, AZ 26

2005
Columbus Crew Stadium, Columbus, OH - September 9, 2005

Cincinnati Colerain 27 Tyler Lee 12
Westerville North 14 Westerville South 10

[psycho43142]

I like and respect most of your posts. I also think you have some depth with your knowledge of h.s football. Unfortunately, I think your opinion on this stinks and is more feeling based. I think many share your opinion on this too.
I guess I don't see or "feel" the venue as being "watered down." I think when you say watered down you are saying there are not any Cinci teams involved. If that is your reasoning then you are right. If playing Ohio v. Ohio teams is watered down then you may also be right. But I kind of liked some of the match ups over the years.

Again, I really think of the venue of playing at the Shoe or at Cowboy Stadium in Texas as a huge deal for 1000's of kids' memories. Not every game is going to be the best game for the venue, but man o' man there's been some great games in this series too.

Now, I think you could list teams annually that would put on a pretty good show whether playing each other or playing an OOS team. Some of my "opinion" hit list would be from Cinci like X, Moe, Elder, Colerain, Anderson. I also like the Glennville, Eds, Solon, Mentor, McKinely from the North. PC, HD, DC, WS, Spring, or Desales from the Central, and even a Youngstown Mooney or Stuebenville throw their hat in the ring. I think year in and out these teams can be competitive.

What games do you feel are watered down this year?
I would enjoy the OOS games too, but I look at last year's games was pretty impressed with the outcomes being pretty close.

Here's some Herbie history per your statement: The Texas games look like blowouts annually. The Ohio games look like a couple of blowouts each year, mixed with some great games.

2010
Ohio
Westerville South 31 Dublin Coffman 21
Canton McKinley 26 Huber Heights Wayne 0
Cleveland Glenville 26 William T. Dwyer 22
Pickerington Central 36 Oscar F. Smith 20
Texas
Trinity 80 Shiloh Christian 26
St. Thomas Aquinas 31 Skyline 3
Cedar Hill 42 Denton Guyer 41
DeSoto 49 Arlington-Bowie 21
2009
Columbus, OH – Saturday August 29th, 2009
St. Thomas Aquinas 52 Upper Arlington 7
Hilliard Davidson 21 Westerville South 20
Columbus, OH – Sunday August 30th, 2009
Dublin Coffman 52 Olentangy Liberty 0
Pickerington Central 28 Orange Lutheran 14
Arlington, TX - Monday September 7th, 2009
Trinity 42 Bingham 21
Colleyville Heritage 28 Irving MacArthur 6
Mansfield Timberview 30 Mansfield Summit 19
Notre Dame 37 Klein Oak 7

2008
Cincinnati – Saturday August 30th, 2008
St. Thomas Aquinas 35 Elder 24
Warren Central 39 Middletown 35
Colerain 14 McKeesport 7 OT
St. Xavier 15 Prattville 10
Cincinnati – Sunday August 31st, 2008
Montgomery Bell 21 Moeller 6
Huber Heights Wayne 20 East St. Louis 12
St. Rita 28 Lakota West 21
Canton - August 30th, 2008
lein Forest 27 Warren Howland 6
Cathedral 34 Canton 13
Cardinal Mooney 57 Covington 0
Jordan 27 Massillon 24
Irving, Texas - Saturday August 30th, 2008
Buford 42 Mansfield 21
Cedar Hill 38 La Salle 14
Justin 13 Woodland Hills 12
Arlington 48 Trotwood-Madison 0
Trinity 28 John Curtis 12
Klein Oak * Mandeville *
*Canceled due to Hurricane Gustav
Colleyville Heritage 41 Clovis East 26

2007
Nippert Stadium, University of Cincinnati - 8/31 and 9/1, 2007
Indianapolis Cathedral, IN 7 Cincinnati La Salle, OH 6
Cincinnati Colerain, OH 20 Hoover, AL 17(OT)
Cincinnati Moeller, OH 22 Mission Viejo, CA
*Forfeit for ineligible player 26
Cincinnati Elder, OH 41 Charlotte Independence, NC 34(OT)
Cincinnati St. Xavier 38 De Matha, MD 7
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 34 Northmont, OH 6
Highlands, KY 24 Trotwood-Madison, OH 20

Fawcett Stadium at the Pro Football HOF, Canton, OH - 8/31, 2007
Buford, GA 34 Grove City, OH 7
Long Beach Poly, CA 21 Cleveland Glenville, OH 13
Cardinal Mooney, OH 27 Gateway, PA 6
Union, OK 31 Canton McKinley 0

2006
Nippert Stadium, University of Cincinnati – Sept 15 & 16, 2006

Texas High, TX 44 Findlay, OH 21
Cincinnati Colerain,OH 28 Cardinal O’Hara, PA 0
Byrnes, SC 21 Cincinnati Moeller, OH 20
Lakeland, FL 25 Cincinnati St. Xavier, OH 22(OT)
Don Bosco Prep, NJ 21 Centerville, OH 0
De La Salle, CA 56 Elder, OH 38

Paul Brown Stadium, Massillon, OH – September 16, 2006

Hilliard Davidson, OH 17 St. Joseph’s Prep, PA 14
Lakewood St. Edward 49 Springdale, AK 3
Massillon Washington 35 Hamilton, AZ 26

2005
Columbus Crew Stadium, Columbus, OH - September 9, 2005

Cincinnati Colerain 27 Tyler Lee 12
Westerville North 14 Westerville South 10

Byrnes, SC 21 Cincinnati Moeller, OH 20
Lakeland, FL 25 Cincinnati St. Xavier, OH 22(OT)
Don Bosco Prep, NJ 21 Centerville, OH 0
De La Salle, CA 56 Elder, OH 38

Paul Brown Stadium, Massillon, OH – September 16, 2006

Hilliard Davidson, OH 17 St. Joseph’s Prep, PA 14
Lakewood St. Edward 49 Springdale, AK 3
Massillon Washington 35 Hamilton, AZ 26

2005
Columbus Crew Stadium, Columbus, OH - September 9, 2005

Cincinnati Colerain 27 Tyler Lee 12
Westerville North 14 Westerville South 10

I agree with Walking Boss that the match ups have become very watered down as compared to past years. Not because of the lack of Cincinnati teams but because of the match ups aren't interesting. There aren't Prattville vs St X style match ups, instead we are given 1 great team team playing a subpar opponent. Even in the earlier years the games were a huge draw just based on some of the schools reputation like De La Salle playing Elder. The original basis was the best teams in Ohio taking on the best teams in the rest of the country and that simply isn't what has been on the plate the last few years.

[knight43210]

What everyone might also want to consider is almost every state has their own version of the Herbie now. The top national teams can pretty much pick and choose where and who they play
As far as the overall poor attendance at the Herbie, it' s just a natural phenomenon that occurs across the mid west. We mid westerners are a very cliquish society. If it' s not our community involved, the support won't be there no matter who the out of state opponent is. I've lived in Texas and Florida and I can tell you they cherish high school sports. If you ever get a chance check out a Saturday morning Texas sports page during football season. The high school coverage alone has more pages than our entire Dispatch.. Any Texas team playing an out of state opponent gets the entire states support. That doesn't happen in the mid west. Heck I can remember just a couple years ago when Pick Central played Oscar Smith, half of Oscar Smith fans were from one of our own local schools. That would have never been tolerated in any of the southern states, PERIOD!!!! Nor would it have even been considered.
Even last year when Pick Central traveled to Indianapolis to play Plainfield, which was only about 20 miles away from the venue site, Plainfield was lucky to have 500 fans there.

[Walking Boss]

Webbie: I think you may be taking this too personally. To me it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the Cinci thing, though it is hard to deny that they generally have deeper tradition and more national recognition than Central Ohio Clubs.

I don't actually follow your logic in your post because you seem to take offense when i say the matchups have been watered down and then you go on to talk about all of the close games. The two have nothing to do with one another. I can see close games every week in the OCC.

I don't even think Ohio vs. Ohio is bad. I love the St. X vs. Pick Central matchup. I really do. I would love to see more R3-R4 tilts. Do we really need Central Ohio vs. Central Ohio teams? My point is, we don't need the Herbie and ESPNU to see Westerville South vs. Coffman or Westerville South vs. Davidson, or to see Coffman vs. Olentangy Liberty, or UA vs. Springfield. That is what we've seen the past couple of years. They might turn out to be great matchups that come down to the wire and feature a handful of DI kids. Great. My point is that in the early years of the Herbie, those types of games were rare or outliers. Look at the teams that appeared in 2005 - 2007...Look at the 9 games that took place in 2005. Look at the names involved...I don't see how you can consider the current version of the Herbie to be the equal of the early version. I just don't.

[Walking Boss]

The original basis was the best teams in Ohio taking on the best teams in the rest of the country and that simply isn't what has been on the plate the last few years.

Psycho: Bingo! You said it better than me, in fewer words.

[1iluvfootball]

This has to be a scheduling nightmare. I great team one year does not equate to great team the next. Open slots are not always there. Tuff Tuff.

[Webko]

Webbie: I think you may be taking this too personally. To me it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the Cinci thing, though it is hard to deny that they generally have deeper tradition and more national recognition than Central Ohio Clubs.

I don't actually follow your logic in your post because you seem to take offense when i say the matchups have been watered down and then you go on to talk about all of the close games. The two have nothing to do with one another. I can see close games every week in the OCC.

I don't even think Ohio vs. Ohio is bad. I love the St. X vs. Pick Central matchup. I really do. I would love to see more R3-R4 tilts. Do we really need Central Ohio vs. Central Ohio teams? My point is, we don't need the Herbie and ESPNU to see Westerville South vs. Coffman or Westerville South vs. Davidson, or to see Coffman vs. Olentangy Liberty, or UA vs. Springfield. That is what we've seen the past couple of years. They might turn out to be great matchups that come down to the wire and feature a handful of DI kids. Great. My point is that in the early years of the Herbie, those types of games were rare or outliers. Look at the teams that appeared in 2005 - 2007...Look at the 9 games that took place in 2005. Look at the names involved...I don't see how you can consider the current version of the Herbie to be the equal of the early version. I just don't.

Reading back my previous post I think my words had more sting of offense then what I actually meant. The post wasn't written well. Unfortunately, I was pretending to work, so I did a little back and forth
I do believe that the original Herbie had a nice card of teams. I understand that. I do think Herbie needs to look at some history to select teams that are in the top of the "charts" each year. For national TV value I agree with your thoughts completely.
I'm originally from PA, and always felt PA had some of the best football in the country, until I came to Ohio about 9 yrs ago. I have been very impressed with the facilities, fans, and the game play of OH h.s football. Thrilled to see the passion of the sport that I have always loved. So, when the chance to see HD v. Westerville south I'm in. The same goes if Moeller v. X on TV, I'm glued to the set. I still question your "watered down" statement to mean to involve the Cinci teams. (I'm actually okay with that, but believe in watching a good game.) The teams I listed in the previous post, to me, are teams that each year are making an impact in the playoffs or causing damage to other good programs.
I wanted to carry on the post with what qualifications should be used to select the best teams from Ohio for the Herbie to make it a valuable event?

[Walking Boss]

Webbie: I think 'Luv' makes a great point about the scheduling aspect being a nightmare. But they were able to pull it off in the old days, so I trust they could do it again. The economy probably has something to do with it also. Things were a lot more flush back in '05-07, so financing something the size and scope of the early versions may not be possible any longer.

Obviously, match-making is huge. But as you point out, there were a lot of great games and only a handful of really serious blow-outs. This is actually pretty amazing when you consider how difficult it has to be to match up two different teams from different states. Styles, competition, player turnover, etc.

All that being said, I think choosing versatile, athletic teams is always a good place to start. That's part of the reason why I think Pick Central has been such a good choice the past several years. They've had a rare combination of speed+power+nastiness that makes them a good bet to represent Ohio well regardless of who they play. Colerain would be another team I would bank on always being confident in. The Cinci or Cleveland Catholics are always a safe bet as well given the talent pools they draw from. UA was a horrible, horrible choice in '09. Even if they weren't playing STA, they would not have represented Ohio well against any team in the national top 50 or 100.

[1iluvfootball]

I think Pick Central and Hillard Davidson would be a consistent Central Ohio pick. When Mcdonalds sponsered the event, it really showed. BK sponsered a few times. I wish more attended this great event. Help keep it alive.