Division 1, Region 2

[rossgrad96]

#8 Medina at #1 Canton McKinley
#7 Twinsburg at #2 Sylvania Southview
#6 Massillon Washington at #3 Toledo Whitmer
#5 Fremont Ross at #4 Toledo St. John's (Site: TBD)

Thoughts on this region?

Mine:
I think McKinley beats Whitmer to win the region, with 2nd round games of McK/Ross & Southview/Whitmer.

[Flying Streak]

OHSAA shows Ross as the number four seed. Do you have something else?

[rossgrad96]

OHSAA shows Ross as the number four seed. Do you have something else?

EDIT -- sigh

[Flying Streak]

I just got 51-50 count too….but OHSAA has released the final rankings and it does show Ross in fourth. Also, in the past OHSAA did not count the week 10 wins by Michigan teams because they were playoff wins. Is this still the case or did Michigan change and now has week 10 regular season games?

[Flying Streak]

This assumes that OHSAA uses the same tiebreak procedure for the 4/5 seed as the do for the 8/9.

And they have used the same system to break other seed ties in the past.

[rossgrad96]

I just got 51-50 count too….but OHSAA has released the final rankings and it does show Ross in fourth. Also, in the past OHSAA did not count the week 10 wins by Michigan teams because they were playoff wins. Is this still the case or did Michigan change and now has week 10 regular season games?

Ah, maybe thats it and they went to the 4th and 5th tiebreaker. Blind draw?

[Flying Streak]

I am asking questions here not making statements. I don’t know what is going on because Joe E and OHSAA are using week 10 games from Michigan.

[sharktb]

First round playoff games in other states and Canada have counted for at least the past 11 years, as long as the teams involved played less than 10 games in the regular season.

I can't speak for pre-2000 though.

JE

[rossgrad96]

First round playoff games in other states and Canada have counted for at least the past 11 years, as long as the teams involved played less than 10 games in the regular season.

I can't speak for pre-2000 though.

JE

Thanks Joe! Hopefully there's some more information tomorrow on what tiebreak was used.

[Flying Streak]

Ok thanks my bad, but that still begs the question… Why is Ross listed as the four seed? Must be a mistake.

[sharktb]

Ok thanks my bad, but that still begs the question… Why is Ross listed as the four seed? Must be a mistake.

It's possible they are going to use L3 points, even though I agree with you that the regulations document seems to explicitly state that L3 shouldn't be used when an out of state team was defeated.

I've seen 2 situations like this previously (since 2000), one was between Kettering Alter and Napoleon in 2005 region 10. They used level 3 points, and Alter won the tiebreaker. The claim was that even if Alter's out-of-state team was not considered (i.e. 0 L3 points for that game), they still had more L3 points against the in-state teams to remain ahead of Napoleon.

The other was last year, 2009 region 19. Coal Grove beat a KY team, but L3 was still used. In this case Ridgewood actually had more L3 points, but I thought it should have gone to total number of victories instead. Turns out Ridgewood had more victories anyway so it was a moot point.

If they are going to use L3 points even in this scenario, they should re-write/clarify the tie-breaker procedure because it seems quite misleading to me.

Tol St John's would not have much chance to win an L3 battle, since Ecorse is D4 and all their defeated opponents victories would only be 4.5 points. Also, since many of Ecorse / Brother Rice's defeated opponents probably only played 9 games, St John's wouldn't even have the same number of opportunities to accumulate L3 points - there is no concept of an L3 divisor to average it out.

[Flying Streak]

Thanks here is another thought. The OHSAA website lists the points each team has accumulated. Then it says the pairings for each region will be released after the protest period ends at 2:00 PM today. Maybe the teams that are tied are listed alpbetically (Fremont ahead of Toledo) and the tiebreaker has not been applied yet. When the pairings are released later today the third tiebreaker will be applied.

Of course you have cited examples of L3 points being used when an out of state opponent has been played. So maybe the current listing is correct. Luckily it is only where the game is being played (4/5 or 5/4) and not who plays each other. I am sure it will get sorted out today.

[Flying Streak]

And still another thought. Maybe the “interpretation” listed below was written before out of state third level games were “available”. Now that we are in the world of the internet and information overload; OHSAA uses level three when an out of state opponent has been played because the results are now “available”.

After 10 games of the regular season Team C and Team D are tied for eighth place in their region; each with an average of 12.4500 points. It is determined that Team C had played and defeated an out-of-state school opponent. There are no third level competition points available when an out-of-state or non-member opponent is involved. When the third level of competition cannot be applied in the case of a tie the following steps shall be followed in the order listed.
1) The team that won in head-to-head competition.
2) If the teams did not play each other, the team with the most regular season victories will qualify.
3) If the teams have the same number of regular season victories, the team whose opponents earned the most victories will qualify.
4) If the total victories of the opponents are equal, the team with the highest victory percentage will qualify.
5) If the teams have identical victory percentages there will be a blind draw conducted by the Commissioner to determine the qualifying team.

[rossgrad96]

I should have stuck with my information!!!!! OHSAA rankings have been updated, TSJ 4, Ross 5.

We can only assume that I was right originally and it went to the third tiebreaker of 51 opponents victories for TSJ, 50 for Ross.

[pan4evr]

Either way...Ross play the Johnies. Should be a great game.

[Cats44]

Does St John use Steinbecker as a home field?

[yingspanthermom]

Apparently, because they don't have a football field.

[Mind the Gap]

Perrysburg is not our home field. There are a couple of options where the game will be played. Springfield High School and BGSU are the two options.

[GR8ONE]

#8 Medina at #1 Canton McKinley
#7 Twinsburg at #2 Sylvania Southview
#6 Massillon Washington at #3 Toledo Whitmer
#5 Fremont Ross at #4 Toledo St. John's (at Perrysburg)

Thoughts on this region?

Mine:
I think McKinley beats Whitmer to win the region, with 2nd round games of McK/Ross & Southview/Whitmer.

I think you just about got it right but I believe Whitmer beats Canton in the regional final in a higher scoring affair,probably something like 35-27.I do not think McKinley's big slower guys can keep up with the speed on Whitmer as they probably have one of the fastest teams in the region if not division 1.

[rossgrad96]

I think you just about got it right but I believe Whitmer beats Canton in the regional final in a higher scoring affair,probably something like 35-27.I do not think McKinley's big slower guys can keep up with the speed on Whitmer as they probably have one of the fastest teams in the region if not division 1.

Myself I'd like to see Ross and Whitmer play again, with a trip to state on the line. Ross beat them in the regular season this year, but I feel like they still owe them from the 1/8 game 3-4 years ago.

[rossgrad96]

Perrysburg is not our home field. There are a couple of options where the game will be played. Springfield High School and BGSU are the two options.

I can't speak for where the information came from, but Ross people are under the impression the game will be in Perrysburg. With the size of the visiting stands, I'd be thrilled to find out they were wrong.

[mlisi39]

Medina has a legit shot. A new coach, a good running game and a lot of emotion on their side.

McKinley only beat one legit playoff team this year, Massillon, and beat Wayne without Braxton Miller.

I understand that history and everything is on McKinley's side, but I wouldn't count out the Bees.

[rmolin73]

It appears Southview is playing a Twinsburg squad that they resemble tremendously. Southview will have to play well defensively and on offense use their big TE's.

[Joe Mama]

I just want to give a "shout out" to this D1 Region 2 group of teams. Now I'm a Twinsburg dad and a big High School football fan. I've watch alot of HS Football for the last 25 years! I've been hearing alot of how D1 R2 is soft and the "State Champ" is gonna come out of R1, R3, or
R4. You know what...? That's Bull Crap! (Sorry, I know, family show!) But I'm tired of hearing about the other regions. The 8 teams in our Region are quality teams with history, state championships, runner ups, oldests rivalries in the country etc. I think Twinsburg and Medina are the new up and comers of the region but between Canton Mckinley, Sylvania Southview, Massillon, Whitmer, St. John's Jesuit, and Freemont Ross - Anyone who knows anything about HS Football knows that these teams have as good a shot getting to the championship as any.

So with that said - good luck to Twinsburg and all the teams in D1 R2! You belong there and if any other region looks past you, there in for a rude awakening!

I'll be making the 2-1/2 hour drive to Sylvania. Can't wait till Saturday! Go (Twinsburg) Tigers!!!

[Cats44]

Mckinley suffered key injuries early in the season, and it showed in their two losses. They have played a more difficult schedule than anybody else, except Massillon, in the regional bracket.

I agree with the original post that Mckinley and Whitmer should be considered the favorites to meet in the regional finals.

I would suggest that Southview is a strong darkhorse. The skill kids are very good, and two are special. They do their thing behind a solid line. Southview has als been a spectacular fourth qtr team this year.

I also wouldnt totally discount Massillon. They have been the dominant team in the region over the last ten years, and the Tigers always seem to be in this situation....being counted out after devastating regular season losses.

[GR8ONE]

Medina has a legit shot. A new coach, a good running game and a lot of emotion on their side.

McKinley only beat one legit playoff team this year, Massillon, and beat Wayne without Braxton Miller.

I understand that history and everything is on McKinley's side, but I wouldn't count out the Bees.

Medina only beat two teams with a winning record(7-3 and 6-4) if you want to talk about legit teams.

[GR8ONE]

Myself I'd like to see Ross and Whitmer play again, with a trip to state on the line. Ross beat them in the regular season this year, but I feel like they still owe them from the 1/8 game 3-4 years ago.

I would not see this as much of a game as Whitmer played about as bad as it could had two really bad calls,including a touchdown called back and still nearly won the game.I expect St. Johns to win the game by 10 or more.

[rossgrad96]

I would not see this as much of a game as Whitmer played about as bad as it could had two really bad calls,including a touchdown called back and still nearly won the game.I expect St. Johns to win the game by 10 or more.

They're always really bad calls when they go against you. I wasn't at the game, so I have no idea, but using "really bad calls" as an excuse is a joke.

So by that same fuzzy logic, I expect Ross to beat SJJ by 40 since Ross beat Whitmer and Whitmer beat SJJ by 25. See how stupid that sounds?

[pan4evr]

Well said rossgrad96 They are always bad calls when they go against you. I too hope WHS gets a shot at Ross again as there is a lot of history in the match-up. I am thinking SJJ may be the most dangerous team in the region as they looked very good against CCHS. Go WHS and beat the Tigers!

[Mind the Gap]

The Fremont Ross-SJJ game will be played at BGSU Saturday Night.