CBP IV Survey #9: General thoughts/concerns on the New CBP?


JJH CBP Survey: Ohio’s Athletic Directors Speak Out

1303155577Will the fourth time be the charm for a Competitive Balance Proposal in Ohio? Less than 24 hours before the start of the OHSAA’s swift seven-day sales pitch (the first Town Hall Meeting is Wednesday in Dayton), here’s what we know. We sent a survey to every athletic director in Ohio last week and plenty responded. If it’s up to them, the answer is…

It’s going top be agonizingly close again.

Nearly 200 schools responded to our 10-question survey and their answers are below. Eight questions were Yes/No. Two allowed for more descriptive responses.

Also, as noted, we sent this survey to Athletic Directors, not Principals. While principals will officially cast the vote for their school on the OHSAA ballot, we wanted to know what the main athletic leader in each district thought about the burning athletic question statewide.

Here are the results. Click on a question to see the results.

What Ohio’s ADs told us…

9. Any general thoughts/concerns on the New CBP? And the impending vote? Do you feel there is an unfair advantage? Do you feel something needs to be done? What don’t you like about the new Competitive Balance Proposal?

*Our state will be JUST FINE if the large semi-professional teams (Catholic) leave the OHSAA. When I see a team like St. Vincent-St. Mary all of a sudden dominate in most every sport, something’s not fair. They had a kid winning in Cross Country who lived in Medina County! That’s probably a 45 minute drive past very good public school districts — hell, Medina is a top notch school district. If you can show me an athletic kid that drives past 45 minutes of public schools to get to another public school to open enroll, I’d be surprised. It might happen, but the numbers cannot come close to what happens with the St. X, St. Ed, St. V, St. Joe, St. Ursula teams. The worst thing is WE ALL KNOW IT’S UNFAIR and we continue to let our public kids settle for sectional champs or maybe if lucky, district runner up. That sends the underlying message that has to affect them for the rest of their lives.

*Nothing that addresses issues in Division 1. Why would any larger public school vote for this when it does nothing to address it?

*The OHSAA expects the membership to vote without having ANY data to reinforce their assumptions and claims. The OHSAA claims it will tweak the process if this is passed. Similar to the mess that myOHSAA has been for 10 years, still not being able to do what it was promised to do. There should be a survey from at least a year’s worth of data to see how this actually affects all schools across the state. The OHSAA has not stated what their goal is in this process. This process will require more working hours on the school’s part, on the OHSAA’s part, which will require still more staff additions there, and additional funding. Why not start with adding a super division for the team sports and work from there? It seemed to have helped football.

*This is the best proposal to date, the big issue is that if this would not pass, it would end the OHSAA as we know it. The Private schools would separate, have no rules,play 50 games, or travel all over the country for tournaments. States that have separate associations have to deal with these issues on a daily basis.

*I am very disappointed that they continue to ignore the issue in division 1. I have a feeling this will pass this time only because people are sick of hearing about it and because it does have some benefit for the smaller schools.

*There is definitely an unfair advantage between public and parochial schools. Schools like Walsh can draw from NE Ohio. Then take a look at an urban school such as a Garfield HS in Akron. They can accept only students that live in that attendance and some open enrolled students. Definitely a mismatch.

*I am not in favor of any type of formula, or any type of public/private split. The thing that needs to be done is the OHSAA needs to follow through on enforcing their recruiting rules that are in place. What good are rules if they are not enforced? There are several schools in the state of Ohio that every AD and coach knows is cheating the system (most of them are private schools), yet the OHSAA does nothing to investigate or punish these violators. This is the reason for all of this discussion about competitive balance…a lack of enforcement of the current rules in place.

*The reason for my support is because the alternative will eventually be a split and I think that will have some significant consequences which could be devastating to public school athletics.

*Many people feel the Catholic or non pubic schools have an advantage in athletics. WHen you look at the history of State Champions that seems to be the case. However, Inner city schools have an advantage in Boys Basketball when playing country schools of the same size. There is inequity everywhere. Does this proposal meet all the needs, no. But it’s time to do something. I’m concerned about all the information that the OHSAA will be requiring for the calculations. Most AD’s plus staff are strapped for time anyway.

*We cannot understand why the OHSAA will not simply put up total separation as a referendum vote. They throw so many “if, ands and buts” into the language of their proposal that they know many will vote NO simply because it is completely unmanageable. The work involved in tracking rosters by itself might cost us another half time employee.

*The OHSAA has given nobody a good reason to trust them.

*Leave it as is and put everybody in the football playoffs. reduce the regular season by one. Also the state should schedule games and move teams up and down according to playoff success.

*Wrestling needs to be addressed

*The facilities at MOST private schools are far beneath what the public schools offer. Coaches are paid about 1/4 to 1/3 what public school coaches are paid. The parents of our students pay taxes for the public school students to attend AND pay tuition for their son/daughter to attend. There really isn’t an unfair advantage to working/playing at a private school.

*The OHSAA is using scare tactics to get schools to vote in favor of the proposal.

*Your fighting image and perception. The few that abuse the transfer rules have given all private schools a bad image.

*How quickly we all forget about open enrollment…it evens the playing field for most everyone.
*With such a proposal the OHSAA must feel that a problem exists. The OHSAA has great regulations and bylaws, enforce these regulations and there would not be a need for such a proposal. If this passes, could this be the end of the OHSAA and education based athletics as we know it?

*I say pass this and try to improve it every year

*I feel private schools definitely have an unfair advantage over public. I’m not sure if this plan will fix the problem I think maybe OHSAA needs to study the plans of other state who have public/private tournaments.

*I do not want to see a split between private and public interscholastic competition. I feel it would be detrimental to all parties involved.

*Yes there is an unfair advantage for Private schools. The need to separate is now. Just too much talking and then last year pulling off the vote at the LAST MINUTE. Very Shady !!!

*It doesn’t address the problem of Private schools recruiting public school players once they have shown athletic promise. If the private schools students have been in that school system all through elementary, then, no problem. how many of these kids show up in middle school?? There is the problem. Making an algebra problem for schools to try and solve doesn’t help make things fair.

*We feel there is an unfair advantage but we are not in favor of a separate state tournament.

*Yes, but I am not sure a public entity such as the OHSAA can really resolve the entire issue. I really do believe that if the private schools would construct “Districts” similar to that of public schools it would lessen the impact of those athletes (especially in the Cin. area) who travel across many different school districts to attend one.

*The thing I don’t like is that if this does not pass, the politicians are going to take over the OHSAA and run it. They have a hard enough time doing what they are suppose to do but they are organizing and may very well take it over. They have an entirely different outlook on what high school sports is all about. This proposal may not be perfect but I think it is very fair. I would much prefer dealing with the existing OHSAA as opposed to to a politically run OHSAA.

*The new CBP will put more duties/paperwork on the athletic administrator regarding roster submissions and the new CBP will depend greatly on the EMIS numbers from the ODE, which are always messed up. It is a start to help satisfy the objections to the current policies. That’s the positive. There needs to be tweaking. I can live with that because subtle changes are always needed.

*OHSAA needs to develop a new committee to research this. New blood with new ideas. Also they can not keep throwing this in our faces with little time to think it through. This is being forced again. Does not appear to have much thought put into it.

*I feel something needs done. Public School boarders are the cleanest way to control who belongs to who. A private school can have a person not count against them who lives across two or more school districts where a public school will have that student/athlete count against them. Sorry!!!!! Still advantage goes to the private school and the level playing field grows wider from public vs private. Everyone is running scared because of lawmakers who don’t know squat about athletics trying to intimidate our association! Politics at its best! Glad retirement is in the near future!

*I think that this will be a logistic nightmare for Athletic Directors and the OHSAA to police. In addition to this, schools that are on the border line for their enrollment count, will continue to have problems trying to properly schedule their teams in the proper division for tournament seeding. Lastly, and perhaps the biggest issue, I don’t see this addressing the real problem of the disparity between the smallest & largest schools in division I. So on our girls side, there are 79 schools in the state that are 50% or larger than us, so in the neighborhood of nearly 200 girls bigger than our school. I believe there should be a cap in size between the smallest division I school and the largest. In any of the other division, from smallest to largest, you do not see this much disparity.

*This is the best proposal to date and they are getting close to getting one to pass. This is not easy and there will be flaws in any new system introduced, but with this one I feel it weighs too heavily on sports other than football and not weighted enough on football.

*Anything that comes from the OHSAA and any committee that Dr. Ross puts together is tainted. I don’t trust the OHSAA in any way, shape or form.

*It will only affect a few schools and the same private schools will still be winning the same amount of state championships.

*It’s clear among the GREAT majority of schools in Ohio that separation of Public/Private would not be a positive in the long run. Thus, an attempt must be made to demonstrate some level of “evenness” as there are ever-evolving “choice” opportunities for students (Open enrollment in Public, Private, Parochial) that this will remain continuous conversation until it is addressed in some fashion. There is NEVER going to be a “perfect” solution for every single school (as attested by the fact that NO state has resolved the same issue). However, staying focused upon the REAL reason we have sports in our schools (and it is NOT just to win state championships!!!) may help get our schools and communities placing first things, first.

*We should simply have separate tournaments for public and private and the play the champions of each tourney to determine a true State Champion.

*There is a definite unfair advantage. My school is out in the middle of a bunch of cornfields and it would be nice to lose in the tournaments to schools other than Privates. We take our local kids and bust our tails to get better and it is so frustrating to compete with schools that seem to have a different set of kids nearly every year. The same can be said for the bigger city schools as well. This is certainly not about every kid getting a trophy but to put schools like mine on somewhat equal ground. I strongly feel Private schools should be bumped up a division in every sport regardless.I have a few friends that work in Private schools and they all say the same – you guys get them ready when there young and we can sell our traditions and academics to them and we get them! Hard to compete with that.

*We just don’t feel that the OHSAA and its member schools will be able to collect the data accurately. It is difficult now for some schools to determine eligibility, etc., now for them to base everything on individual sport rosters will be extremely difficult to get 100% correct. One error can lead to a major mistake come tournament time. We see it now with a team realizing they played an ineligible player. Now that will be even harder to track.

*I think we need something because there definitely is competitive imbalance. I think it will be a close vote but most likely fail. The new proposal is very complicated with a lot of paperwork needed for reporting.

*I do not know enough about this proposal to have an honest opinion. The OHSAA cannot answer questions about the proposal because they have not run sample data.

*It does not address D1 schools. It does not address managing compliance. It cannot answer operational questions. We do not know how many or how schools will be effected because we have not run sample data.

*Something needs to be done to address the overly-simplistic way the OHSAA determines a school’s athletic potential. Merely using the size of the school’s enrollment doesn’t take into account a host of other issues that help or hurt a school in fielding competitive teams.

*Best one yet. Hopefully it passes so we can move on to something important.

*Of all the problems facing interscholastic athletics, this is such a petty issue. We have a real threat from outside organizations such as club soccer, AAU basketball, JO volleyball. These entities are taking sports out of our high schools and here we are fighting over who wins the trophy at the end of the year.



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